Effect on Income and the Financial Benefits Associated for Solar Installations

[DanS26]

I sat on the BOD of Hoosier Energy. Hoosier Energy serves more than 760,000 consumers through 18 member electric cooperatives across a 15,000-square-mile area in Indiana and Illinois.

Every time the subject of equitable billing was discussed, it came down to separating the cost of energy from the cost of delivering that energy. It was as simple as that.

[J.P.M.]

I sat on the BOD of Hoosier Energy. Hoosier Energy serves more than 760,000 consumers through 18 member electric cooperatives across a 15,000-square-mile area in Indiana and Illinois.

Every time the subject of equitable billing was discussed, it came down to separating the cost of energy from the cost of delivering that energy. It was as simple as that.

For almost as long as I've been involved in energy matters I've been of the opinion that since distributed user/generators only offset fuel costs to the POCO, net energy metering ought to be about offsetting the users cost of the fuel only with all other costs such as infrastructure, debt service, administration and maintenance being shared by all users - including NEM users on a per energy unit used basis.

An off-topic rant:
As for the argument that incentives were/are needed to jump start an alternate energy industry, ... well, that's just what happened and look what we got for our money - an inordinate number of train wreck outfits full of wanna be engineers who for the most part wouldn't pass muster doing real engineering work or make as much as a wart on a real engineer's ass. I've seen too many of them.

The solar business has yet to kick off the training wheels that government incentives and NEM provide, get in the game and compete in a real energy market. The solar industry is less robust for those crutches and has far too many snake oil salesmen who do nothing more than make life miserable for the honest business people trying to make a difference and screw naive and solar ignorant consumers.

Rant mode off.

For real engineers doing real engineering in alternate energy outfits that are not train wrecks, my apologies.

[RichardCullip]

I sat on the BOD of Hoosier Energy. Hoosier Energy serves more than 760,000 consumers through 18 member electric cooperatives across a 15,000-square-mile area in Indiana and Illinois.

Every time the subject of equitable billing was discussed, it came down to separating the cost of energy from the cost of delivering that energy. It was as simple as that.

I would love to see the price per kWh for both the cost of energy and the cost of delivering that energy. Care to give an example?

[SunEagle]

I would love to see the price per kWh for both the cost of energy and the cost of delivering that energy. Care to give an example?

Well here where I live the cost of power is about $0.051/kWh and the cost of fuel is about $0.035/kWh. My meter connection is $39.16. When combined with my connection cost and taxes the rate jumps to $0.105/kWh. But again that is using Withlacoochee River Electric for my POCO. Which is very low compared to other POCO's in other states

[bcroe]

Interesting, I am not moving to FL. Here in northern IL I pay
$13.96 a month connection/meter fee. Since I am generating
more than I use, I have no other cost but others pay
$0.068 per KWh supply
$0.0843 per KWh delivery
$0.0232 per KWh tax

Bruce Roe

[joring99]

Hey, I'm just starting my business and wonder if you or anyone else whould hop on a short interview. The interview will be around 10-15 minutes long and just so we're on the same page, the topic will be Marketing. Please let me know if you're interested in helping me out.

[foggysail]

Interesting, I am not moving to FL. Here in northern IL I pay
$13.96 a month connection/meter fee. Since I am generating
more than I use, I have no other cost but others pay
$0.068 per KWh supply
$0.0843 per KWh delivery
$0.0232 per KWh tax

Bruce Roe

I have a similar situation but with different rates. My POCO's distribution charge/KWH is about $0.17 and of course I enjoy all the benefits of NEM. I have two meters, one for production and the second for net consumption. I have no sorrow for my POCO that willingly accepts my unused KWHs for credit, not $ but gets stuck having to absorb my consumption's distribution costs during the periods when my system is without sun. My net consumption with net grid should always be negative.

[sdold]

Hey, I'm just starting my business and wonder if you or anyone else whould hop on a short interview. The interview will be around 10-15 minutes long and just so we're on the same page, the topic will be Marketing. Please let me know if you're interested in helping me out.

Start another thread and ask. Give a little more detail so you'll sound less like a spammer and more like a contributing forum member.

[Srrndhound]

Would someone please define some recently used terms:

1) kWh supply
2) kWh delivery
3) cost of power
4) cost of fuel
5) cost of energy
6) cost of delivering that energy

Thank you kindly.

[J.P.M.]

Would someone please define some recently used terms:

1) kWh supply
2) kWh delivery
3) cost of power
4) cost of fuel
5) cost of energy
6) cost of delivering that energy

Thank you kindly.

The definitions depend on the context in which the question is asked.

For example: kWh supply by who/what.
A storage system ?
The POCO ?
A PV system ?

Google is your friend. Give yourself an education. Enter each term and see what pops up. You'll learn a lot in a short period of time.

[Srrndhound]

For almost as long as I've been involved in energy matters I've been of the opinion that since distributed user/generators only offset fuel costs to the POCO, net energy metering ought to be about offsetting the users cost of the fuel only...

Understood. It takes fuel for the POCO to generate power, and they know their cost for that fuel.

I would love to see the price per kWh for both the cost of energy and the cost of delivering that energy.

By "the cost of delivering that energy" do you mean the POCO's fuel cost, the cost to operate the overall generation/distribution system, both, other?

Well here where I live the cost of power is about $0.051/kWh and the cost of fuel is about $0.035/kWh.

Could you let me know what you mean by "cost of fuel"? Is that the fuel used by the POCO?

Here in northern IL I pay $13.96 a month connection/meter fee.
Since I am generating more than I use, I have no other cost but others pay
$0.068 per KWh supply
$0.0843 per KWh delivery

I might assume delivery means the price the end user pays the POCO for energy. To whom and for what does the end user pay $0.068 per kWh?

[SunEagle]

[QUOTE=Srrndhound;n440154]

Could you let me know what you mean by "cost of fuel"? Is that the fuel used by the POCO?


/QUOTE]

Well my electric bill has a separate charge per kWh I purchased for the fuel used by the POCO to generate that power. So part of my bill includes the cost of fuel along with the cost of power, connection fee and taxes.

[Srrndhound]

Well my electric bill has a separate charge per kWh I purchased for the fuel used by the POCO to generate that power. So part of my bill includes the cost of fuel along with the cost of power, connection fee and taxes.

Perfect. I had no idea a POCO would give you that information. Ours does not, maybe because it's from a varying mix of sources: gas, coal, hydro, solar, wind, geothermal, biomass, market purchase.

Thank you

[bcroe]

I might assume delivery means the price the end user pays the POCO for energy. To whom and for what does the end user pay $0.068 per kWh?

I have not broken down the cost, since it is not optional, and I never
buy any. I presume those are the numbers to generate the energy,
and to deliver it here. Delivery could include cost of some energy
lost in transmission.

It costs some energy to keep that transformer at the street powered,
I presume that cost is part of the fixed connect fee. Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

Perfect. I had no idea a POCO would give you that information. Ours does not, maybe because it's from a varying mix of sources: gas, coal, hydro, solar, wind, geothermal, biomass, market purchase.

Thank you

I know that each POCO is a little different when it comes to their bills. I think mine keeps it pretty simple the way it is broken down. I am also very lucky to have a total bill less then $0.10/kWh which includes just about all of the charges.