Helping my son expand his solar in San diego before nem3

[SunEagle]

I agree those rate differentials are attractive. Actually high rates have their benefits if some of them are during times when solar is generating.

Wow I am actually happy that we do not have any TOU rates from my POCO. The rates goes up from $0.04989/kWh to $0.05214/kWh if I use more then 1000kWh otherwise it is now about $0.09474/kWh for the entire billing period.

In one way I am lucky that my electric rates are very low in another way it makes it very hard to justify installing solar.

[nomadh]

Wow I am actually happy that we do not have any TOU rates from my POCO. The rates goes up from $0.04989/kWh to $0.05214/kWh if I use more then 1000kWh otherwise it is now about $0.09474/kWh for the entire billing period.

In one way I am lucky that my electric rates are very low in another way it makes it very hard to justify installing solar.

That's 4 cents to 9 cents a kw? Here in san diego it's Ike you're logging in from 1964. It's near 10 times higher here.

[nomadh]

My suspicion is that he was on grandfathered NEM rates which retained a lot of the benefits of the old T.O.U. rates and times.
All that expired for all eligible customers on 07/31/2022.

It was around Aug the change happened. Was that change just for nem2? I think my nem1 billing stayed the same. If that's a nem2 change is there a different variation on the billing that might help him?

[SunEagle]

That's 4 cents to 9 cents a kw? Here in san diego it's Ike you're logging in from 1964. It's near 10 times higher here.

Yep my POCO is Withlacoochee Electric which is very low cost to generate electricity. Maybe because they still use coal in a couple of the plants. That doesn't bother me since my rates are so low.

[J.P.M.]

It was around Aug the change happened. Was that change just for nem2? I think my nem1 billing stayed the same. If that's a nem2 change is there a different variation on the billing that might help him?

The way all the rules and their changes got invoked by SDG & E as well as for the other two I.O.U.'s was poorly explained at the time by those POCOs and confusing to most of their customers.

The Reader's Digest version of how SDG & E handled it as best as I remember:

1.) If you were signed up to get a residential PV system after the old NEM quotas were met back around 2017 or so, you would be on the new T.O.U. rates, per NEM 2.0.

2.) If you were an original NEM 1.0 user/customer, you could keep the rate schedule you were on (usually/commonly tiered rates, schedule "DR"), but the poco IMPLIED that everyone - including all old NEM 1.0 user/customers - would be forced to T.O.U. rates - which was not necessarily and commonly not true.

3.) If you were a current NEM 1.0 user/cstomer, an active election to stay on your current rate schedule was possible but as an NEM 1.0 user/ customer, you needed to actively notify SDG & E by filling out a provided form stuffed in with the rest of the billing inserts and mailing it to SDG & E.
All that was (IMO only) sort of buried in the fine print. If no form was mailed, the user/customer was switched by default to T.O.U. rates schedule "DR-SES".

4.) So, a lot of users got suckered into T.O.U. rates by thinking they had no choice when they actually did have such choice (but not me BTW as I filled out the form to elect to stay on tiered rates an NEM 1.0 user).

5.) Suckered (on to T.O.U. rates) and then current PV owners who were (at that time) current NEM 1.0 users/customers turned into NEM 2.0 users /customers were then mollified to some extent by being offered what were and still are called "grandfathered " T.O.U. rates which consisted of the old T.O.U times which were much better for PV owners/users, and, somewhat reduced rates per kWh below the prevailing T.O.U. per kWh rates of the regular T.O.U sch. "DR-SES" which would apply to those (somewhat involuntarily) switched over from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 user/customers.

6.) Those grandfathered rates were to last for 5 years after the NEM 2.0 or old but switched MEM 1.0 customer got their permission to operate ("P.T.O.") from the POCO, but in any and all cases, all grandfathered status and rates were to expire on 07/31/22.

7.) So, and as I see/hear from a lot of my neighbors who ignored or didn't understand what I was trying to explain to them several years ago, a surprise happened to some of them on 07/31/2022 when their grandfathered NEM 2.0 rate break expired and regular T.O.U. rates and times took effect.

That's what I think may be the rate increase you saw last August.

See OCJ's attachment to his/her 03/05/2022 post for more (if somewhat cryptic) details.

Take what you want of the above. scrap the rest.

[jflorey2]

I'm not saying they are angels and are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, because they are certainly not, but their 3 tiered rate plans do open up arbitrage opportunities for those willing to put in the work.

Yep. And with lithium-chemistry batteries going for $300/kwhr new and $100/kwhr used, this becomes economically viable if you want to do it.

[jflorey2]

3.) If you were a current NEM 1.0 user/cstomer, an active election to stay on your current rate schedule was possible but as an NEM 1.0 user/ customer, you needed to actively notify SDG & E by filling out a provided form stuffed in with the rest of the billing inserts and mailing it to SDG & E.
All that was (IMO only) sort of buried in the fine print. If no form was mailed, the user/customer was switched by default to T.O.U. rates schedule "DR-SES".

Yeah - we saw that and did that, so we are still on DR. I keep expecting to get switched "accidentally" to TOU but it hasn't happened yet.

[J.P.M.]

Yeah - we saw that and did that, so we are still on DR. I keep expecting to get switched "accidentally" to TOU but it hasn't happened yet.

At the time of the required election, I advised all my PV equipped NEM 1.0 HOA neighbors (about 80 or so users) that some action/involvement/decision was needed on their part to stay on tiered rates. Most were clueless of that situation. Anecdotally, I think about half did take action to say on tiered rates.

I too expect an "accidental" or more cynically, an "accidental intent" switch attempt. It's just business.

[nomadh]

At the time of the required election, I advised all my PV equipped NEM 1.0 HOA neighbors (about 80 or so users) that some action/involvement/decision was needed on their part to stay on tiered rates. Most were clueless of that situation. Anecdotally, I think about half did take action to say on tiered rates.

I too expect an "accidental" or more cynically, an "accidental intent" switch attempt. It's just business.

My nem1 is also still tou. (I better recheck) my kid's install just a few months later on nem2 was switched. Lookslike you are saying there is no way for nem2 users to have stayed on or get back on tou? Is that right?

[nomadh]

My suspicion is that he was on grandfathered NEM rates which retained a lot of the benefits of the old T.O.U. rates and times.
All that expired for all eligible customers on 07/31/2022.

So that means my other son wanting solar under nem2 will start with a tou system? How is that better than the new nem3 deal?

[nomadh]

Just wanted to say thank you all for the help and even chiming in and tossing ideas around. I've been reading and now rereading to catch more details. Some of this discussion has sparked other questions. Questions my other son looking to get his 1st solar is asking. I don't know because I dodged the issue and went with nem1 and stopped paying attention. so now it's an emergency catch up for my kids. I still need to check fully but it does seem the issue for my 1 kid was the forced change in 7/22. Thanks again for all the info.

[J.P.M.]

So that means my other son wanting solar under nem2 will start with a tou system? How is that better than the new nem3 deal?

NEM 3 installs will be less cost effective because the POCO will be paying NEM users less for the power that sent back to the grid.

[Ampster]

..............

I too expect an "accidental" or more cynically, an "accidental intent" switch attempt. It's just business.

Wasn't there some kind of policy statement by CEC or CPUC that directed the IOUs to move their customers to TOU rates?
I have been on TOU rates for over ten years but in my case those rates made sense for me because I drive EVs. Several years during that time I have been a Net consumer of energy but I had a small dollar credit. Those washed out at True Up so that Net energy was free. Sometimes that Net energy consumed was as much as a megaWatthour in a year. Earlier that was done with solar, just by load shifting and charging the EVs at off peak rates. Because of erosion of time periods i was only able to accomplish the same result with batteries to complement my solar.

[J.P.M.]

Wasn't there some kind of policy statement by CEC or CPUC that directed the IOUs to move their customers to TOU rates?

From where I sit that seems to depend on who does the interpretation or who reads the policy statement(s), wherever they may appear.

To me only, the CPUC policy with respect to how to control usage has always been sort of an unspoken hard hand in the velvet glove but actually the draconian " 'hitem' in the wallet and usage will be controlled" approach.

While I'm a whole hearted advocate of that method - because it works - I call out SDG & E for the cynical and what I see as the deceptive method(s) they use(d) to imply by vague statements strongly and continuously implying that users - particularly NEM 1.0 users - MUST shift to T.O.U. rates. That was never the case and still isn't for NEM 1.0 users - at least not yet. Old NEM 2.0 users could have stayed on tiered rates as well had they made that election early on, but a lot of them got suckered on to T.O.U. rates by not paying attention.

Now, admittedly users are generally mentally slothful people who also refuse to take responsibility for much of anything, and so bear some of the blame for allowing the deception to take place.

So, and again, only my opinion, it seems that it would have been much better from an honesty standpoint for SDG & E to have been up front and say something to the effect of " Look people, we want you all on T.O.U. because it'll make us more money and it'll also make load management a lot easier and so in that respect probably better for all of us, but you can stay on tiered rates if you think it'll be better for you." Then, provide UNDERSATNDABLE and WORKABLE methods that users can easily make sense of (if they'd get off their lazy asses and learn something) to make an informed decision of what works best for them.

Or have SDG & E raise the tiered rates until they're viewed as bad (costly) for users as T.O.U. rates.
At least in that case, some folks (NEM 1.0 users) would not have to bitch and moan and feel they are being forced into making a choice to pay more for power at peak times or having lifestyle changes crammed up their butts by a T.O.U. rate structure.

Now, I'm not so naive that I think SDG & E is in business to be honest, but that deception was so transparent to me anyway that SDG & E deserves to be called out for P.R. stupidity.

[nomadh]

NEM 3 installs will be less cost effective because the POCO will be paying NEM users less for the power that sent back to the grid.

Been reading up on. Nem2 and I feel like something is hidden but i guess it is still a 1 or 1 kw exchange? If a nem2 user generates 10kwh during the day he gets 10 back at night (minus some fixed costs 2 to 3 cents)?
the change last year was If you dont bank enough during the day the on peak evening cost is alot more than than the old tiered costs?
so with nem2 tiered its just more important to shave off that last peak o the evening hump it seems.
am I right on this?