Cost of roof replacement decudted as part of

[GoingElectric]

(Did not see bad title until I hit post, title should say "Cost of roof replacement as deductible from taxes"

The federal residential solar energy credit bill is pretty broad as to what it covers, so I wonder if the roof work needed to mount the panels on can be included.

• Contractor labor costs for onsite preparation, assembly, or original installation, including permitting fees, inspection costs, and developer fees.
• Balance-of-system equipment, including wiring, inverters, and mounting equipment.
• Energy storage devices that are charged exclusively by the associated solar PV panels, even if the storage is placed in service in a subsequent tax year to when the solar energy system is installed (however, the energy storage devices are still subject to the installation date requirements). (Isaac L. Maron. 2018, March 26. “Residential Solar Storage is Eligible for Tax Credit, Subject to a 100% Cliff.” Tax Equity Times. https://www.taxequitytimes.com/2018/03/ residential-solar-storage-eligible-tax-credit-subject-100-cliff/. Note: A private letter ruling may not be relied on as precedent by other taxpayers.)
• Sales taxes on eligible expenses.


(Hi all)

MOD NOTE: For future reference please do not modify a post because that can invoke the spam filter to work.

[Mike 134]

This will be the most accurate info you're likely to find for your questions.
Instructions for Form 5695 (2020) | Internal Revenue Service (irs.gov)

[foo1bar]

so I wonder if the roof work needed to mount the panels on can be included.

• Contractor labor costs for onsite preparation, assembly, or original installation, including permitting fees, inspection costs, and developer fees.
• Balance-of-system equipment, including wiring, inverters, and mounting equipment.
• Energy storage devices that are charged exclusively by the associated solar PV panels, even if the storage is placed in service in a subsequent tax year to when the solar energy system is installed (however, the energy storage devices are still subject to the installation date requirements). (Isaac L. Maron. 2018, March 26. “Residential Solar Storage is Eligible for Tax Credit, Subject to a 100% Cliff.” Tax Equity Times. https://www.taxequitytimes.com/2018/03/ residential-solar-storage-eligible-tax-credit-subject-100-cliff/. Note: A private letter ruling may not be relied on as precedent by other taxpayers.)
• Sales taxes on eligible expenses.

I believe that everything that can be attributed to being part of the solar installation is eligible.

BUT

I am not a tax law expert, nor even paid to prepare taxes.

I would contact your tax preparer and ask them for advice. (Now would be a good time to get that advice since they're probably not as busy as Feb/March/April.)

[J.P.M.]

Like Foo1bar, I'm not a CPA, nor do I play one on TV, but I take advice from friends who, due to the nature of their business and assets get audited 1X/awhile. That advise is: Use your head, be honest, hire good accountants and don't forget to take your checkbook to the audit.

[solarix]

I've seen people do this, but I consider it to be unethical as your roof would need to be maintained whether it was getting solar or not.
If some one asks to include a reroof on my invoice, I tell them sure - but I need to markup the cost of the roofing by 30% to cover the liability incurred in any roofing work.

[GoingElectric]

Thanks for feedback.

Seems best is to itemize each part of part work, and let tax advisor decide.
Strengthening the roof for added weight likely yes, new tiles/shingles are no.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for feedback.

Seems best is to itemize each part of part work, and let tax advisor decide.
Strengthening the roof for added weight likely yes, new tiles/shingles are no.

Only modify the roof if the design process/analysis dictates one.

The dead weight of the array, while it cannot be ignored in any usually required check of the roof loading design considerations and calculations, usually amounts to a small portion of the loading combinations that need checking as part of the design process.

Often, in the case of roof mounts, the uplift from wind loading will often/usually produce the greatest new loading consideration to the several combinations of loading considerations that must be checked. Such added load(s) may/may not require beefing up a roof or other structure the array is attached to.

[Mike 134]

Thanks for feedback.

Seems best is to itemize each part of part work, and let tax advisor decide.
Strengthening the roof for added weight likely yes, new tiles/shingles are no.

Be sure you get a structural engineer that works with solar often and understands all the footnotes that apply.
First one I chatted with Immediately said truss roofs are barely adequate as is. thought I would need about $1500 in lumber to reenforce the trusses plus labor and his stamped drawings.

Second one who works with solar all the time, knew live loads under the panels are not needed in calculations, (you don't walk on panels) Snow load is decreased due to angle of panels, the list of exceptions just goes on. He stamped my AutoCAD drawings, permit went without a hitch. No reinforcement of roof needed. (first 30" snowfall will be the proof of his numbers)

[J.P.M.]

Be sure you get a structural engineer that works with solar often and understands all the footnotes that apply.
First one I chatted with Immediately said truss roofs are barely adequate as is. thought I would need about $1500 in lumber to reenforce the trusses plus labor and his stamped drawings.

Second one who works with solar all the time, knew live loads under the panels are not needed in calculations, (you don't walk on panels) Snow load is decreased due to angle of panels, the list of exceptions just goes on. He stamped my AutoCAD drawings, permit went without a hitch. No reinforcement of roof needed. (first 30" snowfall will be the proof of his numbers)

In the U.S, at least, most modern standards, ASCE, UBC etc. that most all local authorities usually use as standards, require a (vertical) dead load on roofs of no more than 40 lbf/ft.^2.

Most PV arrays including racking amount to maybe 3-5 lb./ ft.^2 of distributed weight. That load needs to be added to the snow load which does need to be considered as part of the roof loading - but not as a distributed load per se. Both the array weight and any snow or other distributed loading needs to be added with the summed loads then distributed among the roof connections with each of those connection loads treated as point loads in the analysis of the roof - including an analysis of the attachment screws/bolting with a check for tearout loads.

When I did these sorts of calculations for a living (for industrial applications), even after factor of safely considerations I never saw a dead weight load on a roof get close to that limit.

That someone would say that roof trusses are barely adequate (and I'm assuming that's meant as a general statement for residential roofs) seems strange to me. If true, or mostly true, that would mean that since most roofs don't seem to get beefed up (or fail because someone put an array on it), either the calcs are not done, or a lot of calculation errors are being made and not caught, or a lot of roofs are designed really close to the load limits. My experience tells me any one of those three situations is very unlikely.

Live loads on an array do not need to be considered. However, the snow loading does need consideration as described above - that is not as a distributed load.

Also, while wind loads are not considered "live loads", they do have some of the characteristics of both live and cyclic loads in that they are often occasional and can induce vibration loadings which a sharp engineer might consider and add to the downward vector to the other loads as one of the several loading conditions where a vibration analysis is called for. Such things are not usually considered except in the way wind loads are calculated differently from than other loads are considered. Additional treatment may be required depending on the application. Most residential situations will not.

[foo1bar]

Thanks for feedback.

Seems best is to itemize each part of part work, and let tax advisor decide.
Strengthening the roof for added weight likely yes, new tiles/shingles are no.

IMO new tiles/shingles for the area of the roof that has the array are part of the installation costs and therefore eligible.

AFAIK there is not yet any case law or even private letter rulings by the IRS to support or contradict that opinion.
But I think if it's something a reasonable person would agree that it was required because of the solar installation it's eligible.

[azdave]

You can claim all kinds of questionable things on your taxes and be okay until your return gets audited.

IMO, claiming a tax credit to install a new roof covering that was going to need replaced soon anyway is very clearly taking advantage of the intention of the legislation however, I also very clearly understand that humans will take anything and everything around them that isn't firmly nailed down so I'm not surprised at all that people claim the tax credit.

[foo1bar]

You can claim all kinds of questionable things on your taxes and be okay until your return gets audited.

True.
In this case, I'm not worried about it even if I do get audited.
Would I claim the entire roof? No. I don't think a reasonable person would find that to be attributable to the solar install.
But the section under the arrays? And installing the new roof jacks that were required because of moving plumbing vents? Yes - a reasonable person sees that as part of the site prep for solar installation. And site prep is part of the covered items.

IMO, claiming a tax credit to install a new roof covering that was going to need replaced soon anyway is very clearly taking advantage of the intention of the legislation

Of course it's taking advantage of the legislation.
Claiming the tax credit at all is taking advantage of the legislation.

"Anyone may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes." - Learned Hand (Federal Judge)

[J.P.M.]

You can claim all kinds of questionable things on your taxes and be okay until your return gets audited.

Fortune favors the bold but slaughters the foolish. As I wrote, take the deduction and take your checkbook to the audit.