Comparing two quotes in central Oklahoma

[Minerva]

If backup mode is something you really need, read up on the IQM in backup mode: "Design and Installation Parameters for IQ8 Back-up Configurations". Don't make any assumptions about anything. For Enphase IQ8M backup, what equipment is needed, how is it wired, what apps are needed? What happens if the power AND internet goes down? Can I still access my Enphase system in backup mode through phone app using mobile data or local network? How does this affect cost as your original quote #2 only lists new 200amp breaker.

If you don't need back mode, then the Enphase IQ8M potential "Sunlight Backup mode" wouldn't be a selling point in your circumstance.

Very good points.

However I have hit a roadblock.
As pointed out earlier this project doesn't have the best ROI....between low electric rates in our area and the amount of weather proofing and insulation and improved windows I have put in the house we are pretty efficient.

I called my home owners insurance company and told them of my plans and asked how it might affect the premiums.
They asked some questions bout KW and number of panels.

Come to find out, it will raise my premiums $800.00 per year.

And that is $800 each and every year and will no doubt increase...

I don't think solar is in our future for us.

[slinthicum]

Sounds like you've reached a logical conclusion. Looking for ideas to reduce energy consumption is a way to save money, often without spending money. In a recent article that I wrote as a volunteer service (uncompensated), I discussed my experience in reducing consumption by using smart plugs and switches. An example identified in the article is my printer. The smart plug it is attached to has a scheduled turn-off time of 9:00p.m. and turn-on time of 8:00a.m This helps in reducing vampire energy use.

[GoingElectric]

Very good points.

However I have hit a roadblock.
As pointed out earlier this project doesn't have the best ROI....between low electric rates in our area and the amount of weather proofing and insulation and improved windows I have put in the house we are pretty efficient.

I called my home owners insurance company and told them of my plans and asked how it might affect the premiums.
They asked some questions bout KW and number of panels.

Come to find out, it will raise my premiums $800.00 per year.

And that is $800 each and every year and will no doubt increase...

I don't think solar is in our future for us.

That more than drowns any value increase of your domicile!
Will you check with other insurance providers? (forgot to add in reply)

[J.P.M.]

Very good points.

However I have hit a roadblock.
As pointed out earlier this project doesn't have the best ROI....between low electric rates in our area and the amount of weather proofing and insulation and improved windows I have put in the house we are pretty efficient.

I called my home owners insurance company and told them of my plans and asked how it might affect the premiums.
They asked some questions bout KW and number of panels.

Come to find out, it will raise my premiums $800.00 per year.

And that is $800 each and every year and will no doubt increase...

I don't think solar is in our future for us.

I was speaking with a well known '70's energy guru many years ago who often hit nails on their heads with unusual ways of seeing things. At the time, he suggested to me and others that the biggest threat to solar energy's future was not big oil, but energy conservation efforts. Your situation seems to confirm that.

The (relatively) low power rates you enjoy is what is most responsible for making PV not cost effective.

Cheer up. most folks chasing PV are doing so to achieve what you already enjoy - low(er) electric bills. You also got lower bills the right way - conservation first.

As for insurance, I'd snoop around for a new insurance carrier.

[GoingElectric]

But, FWIW, and acceptable ROI for me is any ROI that is greater than the best currently available ROI for any other investment vehicle I might consider after looking at the primary parameters of risk, length of time involved and the impact the choices make on my personal lifestyle. Basically, for me only, it comes down to a life cycle cost analysis. The investment with the most bang for the buck wins. If it's PV, so be it. If not, it isn't the choice. Like Michael Corleone said in "The Godfather": "It's just business".
.

But at the end of financial commercials they have a disclaimer that might say “The capital value of units in the fund can fluctuate and the price of units can go down as well as up and is not guaranteed."”

We never know what can happen in future that may make PV an great investment, but as long as the PV investment has a stable value then at worse you will have a >10 year ROI, while at best a <10 ROI.

Regardless, that is a good factor to consider in a PV system. Signing up with 100% Renewable power at higher $ per kW/h could probability be less than a PV system for same set time period.

[Minerva]

Will you check with other insurance providers? (forgot to add in reply)

No. We have been with the present company for 20 years. I live in Oklahoma and my house was known as "The Last House Standing" after the tornado on May 31, 2013.
My insurance company had an adjuster at my house in two days, they hand delivered two checks within three days after that. They flew a guy in from Green Bay to do it. They were very fair on their calculations and explained to me the best way to do business with the damage to my house. I had never had to deal with anything such as that before.

Many home owners were taken advantage of by their contractors, but I was coached by my insurance company well.

There were horror stories all over my neighborhood about other insurance companies. I had payment in full before most of my neighbors had seen their adjuster.

For those reasons, and the fact their rates are darn good, I am not about to change companies.

[GoingElectric]

No. We have been with the present company for 20 years. I live in Oklahoma and my house was known as "The Last House Standing" after the tornado on May 31, 2013.
My insurance company had an adjuster at my house in two days, they hand delivered two checks within three days after that. They flew a guy in from Green Bay to do it. They were very fair on their calculations and explained to me the best way to do business with the damage to my house. I had never had to deal with anything such as that before.

Many home owners were taken advantage of by their contractors, but I was coached by my insurance company well.

There were horror stories all over my neighborhood about other insurance companies. I had payment in full before most of my neighbors had seen their adjuster.

For those reasons, and the fact their rates are darn good, I am not about to change companies.

Sounds like great service,
Talk with the head office then. Find out why the increase, and is there a way to reduce, other options. They may spare time to listen.

Good luck!

[Mike90250]

It could be the insurance company estimating damages from wind blown objects and Hail. Maybe you can get an exclusion for minor damages and only cover the panels if the roof is destroyed ?

[slinthicum]

Enough said -- https://www.solarpowerworldonline.co...r-a-hailstorm/
According to loss prevention data sheets from insurance research company FM Global, “very severe” hailstorms (51-mm or greater hailstones) are significantly increasing in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota and parts of New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming. Adjacent states in the Midwest and South are also experiencing more “severe” hailstorms (44-mm to 51-mm hailstones).

As an example of a very severe hailstorm’s financial damage, a 178-MW solar project in Pecos County, Texas, sustained $75 million worth of hail damage in 2019. The insurance company reportedly had typically paid out up to $1 million for hail claims in the past. As a result of this incident, however, the Insurance Insider article reveals that solar project insurance carriers have raised rates by 20 to 40%, and have imposed new deductible limits that will leave more hail damage on the balance sheets of solar asset owners.

[bcroe]

Perhaps the commercial PVs in that area should only be the E-W
tracking type, which could be turned vertical for the storm.

I am going to propose, that the closer to vertical a solar panel is, the
less likely it is to take hail damage. As it turns out, my multi orientation
panels tend toward vertical. As they do not all face the same direction,
perhaps even hail with a large horizontal component of falling trajectory
would only bother some of them. In the worst case, I am quite sure the
ground mount would survive, making them the easiest instalation to
replace. The ground mount has no effect on my house insurance.

The best way to deal with using less energy, is to be very conscious of
the actual numbers for your situation, and alternatives. This does not
work well with the average consumer, who just wants a quick silver bullet
to solve energy issues, and then to forget about them. With actual energy
numbers, actions taken can be a lot more effective.

Here the approach has been primarily to eliminate waste. The Energy
Star appliances have been extremely effective here, often using less
than half as much energy, as the older equipment replaced. I am starting
to cringe every time I see an AC unit with a 13 SEER rating (my neighbor
finally got rid of hers). The secondary advantage of Energy Star stuff, is
it has very low Vampire load, that is, energy use when in the standby
mode. My older TVs each used 5W when off, so the remote could be
used to turn them on. That is 44KWh a year each. The replacements
are so low as hard to measure.

Clocks, mine are pretty much battery powered atomic clocks. Yes a lot
of appliances have clocks, I do not even bother to set them. Measurements
showed, the clock on the vintage microwave, used more KWh per year,
than the actual microwave running a few minures a day. Now modified,
it quickly unplugs itself till I open the door.

I keep hearing about unplugging or turning stuff off, but that simply does
not work much of anywhere. Better to have auto timeout or extremely
efficient stuff. Timers on a power strip can work in a limited way, if you
always make sure they are working. How much power does the timer
use? Printer power packs here (and a few other things), were found to
use 5W each with printer off. I plugged them into the light circuit, to only
come on when I come in and turn on the light. Bruce Roe

[Minerva]

Enough said -- https://www.solarpowerworldonline.co...r-a-hailstorm/
According to loss prevention data sheets from insurance research company FM Global, “very severe” hailstorms (51-mm or greater hailstones) are significantly increasing in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota and parts of New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming. Adjacent states in the Midwest and South are also experiencing more “severe” hailstorms (44-mm to 51-mm hailstones).

As an example of a very severe hailstorm’s financial damage, a 178-MW solar project in Pecos County, Texas, sustained $75 million worth of hail damage in 2019. The insurance company reportedly had typically paid out up to $1 million for hail claims in the past. As a result of this incident, however, the Insurance Insider article reveals that solar project insurance carriers have raised rates by 20 to 40%, and have imposed new deductible limits that will leave more hail damage on the balance sheets of solar asset owners.

My brother, who lives less than 10 miles from me, has had his room replaced twice in the last 18 months. He is concerned his insurance company may cancel him.