I think we're loosing money by using SunRun solar penal.

[ADADJlSEJ]

We moved out in a house which has Sunrun solar panel about 2 years ago.

We heard that solar panels pay itself. So we liked that the house has the panel(8kW) already.

However today I figured out how much we loose money with the panel.

I checked that SunRun panel have produced about 10580 kWh for 12 months. And Edision give credit $0.190/kWh for super off peak.

So we saved about $0.190/kWh * 10580 kWh = $2010

Of course, 10580kWh was produced on off peak time and mid peak time too which Edison pay more. So the $ the panel produced should be little more than that.

Let say the Panel produced $2300 worthy of energy, instead of $2010 for one year.

However we pay $199 monthly to Sunburn.

$199*12= $2388 / year

Also we had to pay $661 to Edison one time last year for NEM(Net Energy Metering)

So by using Sunrun panel,

We spend about $2388+$661

And we saved $2300

So we loose $749.



By the way, our daily average electricity usage was 9.62 kWh, which is 3511kWh yearly.
Please let me know if it is normal or not, and what is the best solution for us now.
We will charge our Tesla(we will drive 50-60miles a day) at our home, so we will use more electric.


I attached two Edison invoices - one winter, one summer -
I also attached a contract with Sunrun, and some data from Edison.
Please review, and let me know if we're loosing money, or not.
By the way, I edited above pdf files to delete personal information.

Thank you.


Edison bill -summer 2021.pdf

[Mike 134]

I'm just shocked at your KWH rate out in CA. Looks like you have 16 years left on the lease.

[Mike90250]

California is working on a new state flag:

FlashlightBearFlag.jpg

[FFE]

First, I believe you only included your Delivery Charge when looking at your Edison credit. You also have the Generation Charge which is about $0.07 per kWh. So you are getting about $0.26 per kWh in credit on the winter bill you posted. Second, some of your production is during the more expensive times and you get more for those kWh. Third, your production is well below the guarantee on your contract. Are you getting the data from your inverter or from Sunrun?

[ADADJlSEJ]

First, I believe you only included your Delivery Charge when looking at your Edison credit. You also have the Generation Charge which is about $0.07 per kWh. So you are getting about $0.26 per kWh in credit on the winter bill you posted. Second, some of your production is during the more expensive times and you get more for those kWh. Third, your production is well below the guarantee on your contract. Are you getting the data from your inverter or from Sunrun?

Thank you for the reply.
I got the data from Sunrun.

By the way, I'm sure there is error in my math.

Please let me know if we're really loosing money or not by using Sunrun.
If we make money by using Sunrun service, how much do we make?
Because they said that they guarantee their performance in our contract, if it does under performance, how can prove that?
I contact them for the issue, and they send me email like below.

Thank you for contacting Sunrun Customer Care. I wanted to send you some general instructions on how to access your solar production as well as how to determine your total usage.
You will want to begin by grabbing your utility bills for the period of time you’re concerned about. Each bill during this timeframe should have specific service dates along with billed kWhs. You may notice a “solar bank” or received kWhs, this is what comes from your solar system and is used prior to being charged by your utility. It is important to note that your utility company only has access to the production that is sent to the grid as opposed to being used immediately by your home. This is why your utility bill will not match mySunrun production numbers.
From here, login to https://my.sunrun.com/ and you will want to view your solar production for the same service dates listed on your utility bill under “Energy System.” For future reference, you can adjust the graph to display the kWh generated by day, week, month, or year - for this, you will want to add custom dates and download the .CSV file. At this point, you will need to add the production from mySunrun to the total billed kWhs from your utility bill to get your actual consumption for that service period.
Remember, solar is a seasonal product and will produce less if the access to the sun is lower (shorter days, weather, etc.) This means your best bet is to look at your total consumption based on an entire year to see the complete picture. Your system was also sized based on your pre-solar bills, keep in mind that any increase in usage will impact your overall savings.

Best Regards,

[sabersix]

Keep in mind that the system on your home was designed for the electric usage of the previous owners. You are using significantly more electricity than your system is generating. This is evident from the $661 new charges on your 12-month settlement bill. Your system has an estimated gross annual output of 13,750 kWh at year one. It appears you are in year four. 10,580 kWh seems a little low. Your contract says Sunrun will calculate the actual output every 24 months. This should have been done at least once and probably twice. Have you seen this calculation from Sunrun?

As far as your consumption, the SCE bill is only showing you what their meter is registering for import and export. The SCE bill does NOT include the power you consume immediately from your system. Let's assume that your 8kW system produces 35kWh of power per day and SCE says you are importing 9kWh per day. Your total consumption is 44kWh per day. This is why you owe SCE money at the 12-month settlement.

I don't think you are losing money on the system, but probably only 5-10% ahead using the system.

[ADADJlSEJ]

Your contract says Sunrun will calculate the actual output every 24 months. This should have been done at least once and probably twice. Have you seen this calculation from Sunrun?

I logged in Sunrun website, and I could get those numbers. please check attached files.
BTW, I just found that they attached soft_savings_sunrun pdf file from previous answer for my inquiry last time.
So I attached the file too.
I'm not sure if it is actual value, or just assumption.
Either it is actual value or assumption, the saving for year is just $122.75 which is much lower than what I expected.

By the way, do you think if installing power battery will make it better?
I heard that we can get some rebate too. - I live in Los Angeles County, California.



Thank you

[sabersix]

Leasing/Power Purchase Agreement is attractive since no upfront money is required. The downside of this is that the vendor (Sunrun) is reaping most of the benefits. Typical bill reduction is only 5-10% of what you would pay SCE (as shown in the SOFT_SAVINGS), but you didn't have to invest anything to get this benefit.

Adding batteries will not help you. Even though you could potentially shift some of your usage from peak to off-peak, the cost of batteries (even with rebate) will likely not be recouped before the batteries need to be replaced.

Your most cost effective action is to have SCE come out and do a energy audit to help you reduce your use.

[ADADJlSEJ]

Leasing/Power Purchase Agreement is attractive since no upfront money is required. The downside of this is that the vendor (Sunrun) is reaping most of the benefits. Typical bill reduction is only 5-10% of what you would pay SCE (as shown in the SOFT_SAVINGS), but you didn't have to invest anything to get this benefit.

Adding batteries will not help you. Even though you could potentially shift some of your usage from peak to off-peak, the cost of batteries (even with rebate) will likely not be recouped before the batteries need to be replaced.

Your most cost effective action is to have SCE come out and do a energy audit to help you reduce your use.

Do you think our solar panel produce enough energy stated in the contract, or less than that?
Do you think we can ask SunRun to guarantee the performance?
Do you think buying out the panel can reduce the bill down?

By the way, I just wonder what is the best solar panel and how much we can save money by using the panel?
Can we save 40% or more electric bill by using the panel?
How much do we have to pay for the panel after rebate?
We might purchase one small house, and if there is good panel which we can save $$$ money, then we want to install it before California change law to pay less money for solar panel.



Thank you.

[sabersix]

It appears your solar system is under performing. Sunrun already guarantees the performance per your contract (Section D). On the 24th month anniversary of the In-Service Date (Jan 2019) Sunrun will calculate the "Actual Output" of the solar system and issue a refund if the actual output is less than the guaranteed output set forth in Exhibit A of your contract. The first 24 month anniversary was Jan 2021, the next will be Jan 2023. Request the actual output calculation from 2021 to see what happened then.

Other than that, Sunrun will do nothing that isn't in the contract.

Looks like SCE is doing audit online now. Check out: https://www.sce.com/residential/home...Energy-Advisor

[ADADJlSEJ]

It appears your solar system is under performing. Sunrun already guarantees the performance per your contract (Section D). On the 24th month anniversary of the In-Service Date (Jan 2019) Sunrun will calculate the "Actual Output" of the solar system and issue a refund if the actual output is less than the guaranteed output set forth in Exhibit A of your contract. The first 24 month anniversary was Jan 2021, the next will be Jan 2023. Request the actual output calculation from 2021 to see what happened then.

Other than that, Sunrun will do nothing that isn't in the contract.

Looks like SCE is doing audit online now. Check out: https://www.sce.com/residential/home...Energy-Advisor

Thank you very much for the suggestion.
I just sent email.

[ADADJlSEJ]

I checked online bills and I saw that they already gave us credit for under performance at that time.
Even though I don't save good money with their service, at least Sunrun have done what they promised.

[ADADJlSEJ]

I found that there is rebate information for battery on Edison website.

https://marketplace.sce.com/battery

Rebates $ is decided based on information.
Can you let me know how much do we have to input for Average Energy Bill?
I guess I need to put average monthly bill that we pay to Edison which doesn't include money that we pay to Sunrun, right?

Can you also let me know how many battery do we need?
We just purchased Tesla Y long range which we will drive about 50-60 miles a day, and we will charge every time in our house.

Do you think we can save some money by installing battery?

Thank you.

[azdave]

Even though I don't save good money with their service, at least Sunrun have done what they promised.

Of course they would rebate per the contract. They make a load of profit off of these lease agreements. They are not going to risk breaking that contract when it is very profitable for them to keep the leesee happy.

[Np92801]

I don't know if anybody has mentioned this but have somebody go up there and clean the panels every 1-2 years. There is not much rain out west and the dust and other chemicals will lower the amount of light hitting the cells. I saw a large increase the next day after I got mine cleaned last year (in the evening).