Is it normal for your bill to be the same pre-solar in Dec?

[Ampster]

What is the location of ESP? They are either a franchise or have offices in several cities in California.

[mjs020294]

Not read all the posts but do you get shade Dec/Jan. Our roof is south facing but the neighbors trees come into play when the sun is below 38-39 degrees altitude, which occurs a lot in Dec/Jan.

[azdave]

Not read all the posts but do you get shade Dec/Jan.

He says in his first post that the panels get full sun.

[Cshama]

That is what I suspect. And with a string inverter instead of microinverters, their entire production would be affected.

[Ampster]

.... And with a string inverter instead of microinverters, their entire production would be affected.

Otherwise known as a single point of failure.

[Mike90250]

With a string inverter, it's pretty obvious if there is a problem. Even more so if you have 2+ strings of equal size. Click, click, click. Both strings are the same

Microinverters give you more failure points, tend to conceal if there is a bad unit (not everyone understands the charts/displays), and are often more troublesome to replace being on the roof, in the middle of the array - oops, the installer didn't map the panels right - happy hunting

it's a matter of style I suppose.

[Ampster]

......

it's a matter of style I suppose.

Yes, you could call it style. I think it is also a matter of tradeoffs. I recently saw a ground mount 20kW install with no RSD or shade issues that was done with micros. Clearly several string inverters would have been the most cost effective so I inquired why they chose micros. The owner said he did not want a single point of failure and paid more for that risk management decision. In his mind the downtime of an inverter taking the system down was not worth the cost savings versus having one or two of the fifty micros going down. He also pointed out that the micro warranty was over 20 years and the best string inverter warranty was 12 years. I have both string inverters and micros and I see both sides of the issue with no clear optimum strategy. It all depends on where you are standing.

[Cshama]

Personally I like know when a micro fails and at the same time my production continuing while the issue gets fixed. It’s actually happened to me.

However in this particular case we are dealing with someone getting 10% of their summer production. And trying to figure out the cause.

[J.P.M.]

With a string inverter, it's pretty obvious if there is a problem. Even more so if you have 2+ strings of equal size. Click, click, click. Both strings are the same

Microinverters give you more failure points, tend to conceal if there is a bad unit (not everyone understands the charts/displays), and are often more troublesome to replace being on the roof, in the middle of the array - oops, the installer didn't map the panels right - happy hunting

it's a matter of style I suppose.

For the PV knowledgeable such as the regulars around here and others, it may be something of a choice or tradeoff. But most residential PV owners , including most of the owners of the 150 or so systems in my HOA that I'm more than casually acquainted with are pretty typical. Most of them know next to nothing about what they have (mostly on their roofs) or how it works, and don't care or even think about it as long as their electric bills stay low.

For those folks with micros or optimizers, one or two failures often go unnoticed as the loss of production is a relatively small part of the whole. I'd think a sting inverter failure would be a wakeup call as soon as the next POCO bill showed up (provided an owner pays more attention to their bill than they do their system). BTW, no string inverters have failed in the 10 or so years I've been keeping track (but I expect those failures to start some day soon). Over the same time period, probably 20 or so micros or optimizers have failed, about half or so of that number being infant mortality, but my record keeping doesn't track that level of minutia. Except for the dozen or so systems I track, I have no idea if, or how many systems with unknown micro or optimizer failures are running in the other 140 or so systems. Adding to that, since Sullivan Solar and several other less qualified vendors are out of business, quite a few of the unknowns may well say anonymous for some time to come.

I've also learned that usually the vendor makes all of the decisions for Joe and Jane 6-pack, particularly for those foolish enough to lease. I'm of the opinion that micros and optimizers being easier and more profitable to install has a hand in equipment selection decisions vendors foist on their marks although I'd think that RSD requirements also play a role.

Off topic, but I have also noticed that idea and reality of the folly of leasing has begun to penetrate the homeowner marketplace just a bit.

Anyway, for all the reasons Mike cites and more, and based on what I might know and what I've learned from my HOA experiences, seems to me on balance that the average homeowner would be better off with string inverters sitting in their garages, but are usually at the mercy of their solar ignorance that vendors for the most part take advantage of. For such folks, the matter of style is what the vendor decides, not the buyer.

[SunEagle]

For the PV knowledgeable such as the regulars around here and others, it may be something of a choice or tradeoff. But most residential PV owners , including most of the owners of the 150 or so systems in my HOA that I'm more than casually acquainted with are pretty typical. Most of them know next to nothing about what they have (mostly on their roofs) or how it works, and don't care or even think about it as long as their electric bills stay low.

For those folks with micros or optimizers, one or two failures often go unnoticed as the loss of production is a relatively small part of the whole. I'd think a sting inverter failure would be a wakeup call as soon as the next POCO bill showed up (provided an owner pays more attention to their bill than they do their system). BTW, no string inverters have failed in the 10 or so years I've been keeping track (but I expect those failures to start some day soon). Over the same time period, probably 20 or so micros or optimizers have failed, about half or so of that number being infant mortality, but my record keeping doesn't track that level of minutia. Except for the dozen or so systems I track, I have no idea if, or how many systems with unknown micro or optimizer failures are running in the other 140 or so systems. Adding to that, since Sullivan Solar and several other less qualified vendors are out of business, quite a few of the unknowns may well say anonymous for some time to come.

I've also learned that usually the vendor makes all of the decisions for Joe and Jane 6-pack, particularly for those foolish enough to lease. I'm of the opinion that micros and optimizers being easier and more profitable to install has a hand in equipment selection decisions vendors foist on their marks although I'd think that RSD requirements also play a role.

Off topic, but I have also noticed that idea and reality of the folly of leasing has begun to penetrate the homeowner marketplace just a bit.

Anyway, for all the reasons Mike cites and more, and based on what I might know and what I've learned from my HOA experiences, seems to me on balance that the average homeowner would be better off with string inverters sitting in their garages, but are usually at the mercy of their solar ignorance that vendors for the most part take advantage of. For such folks, the matter of style is what the vendor decides, not the buyer.

I will add to those comments by saying the there are a lot of people that are tricked into thinking a leased vehicle is cheaper then a purchased one. Based on what I see and heard unless you can write off a lease you will always be spending much more then financing a vehicle. The same goes for solar pv systems. Leasing is a scam that leans toward to seller and not the buyer.

[oregon_phil]

That is what I suspect. And with a string inverter instead of microinverters, their entire production would be affected.

OP said they have "external Inverter

1x Solar Edge Tech. SE3800H-US (240V) (S) 1 Jun20) with a Total Effective Inverter Nameplate Rating: 3.747 kW.

The PV Panels: 15x Hanwha Q cells - Q peak BLK-G5 320."

We know the installation is questionable, but there's a lot we do not know about this set up. There are 15 panels 320 watt panels. What optimizer? For the Solar edge SE3800H-US inverter, the most likely optimizer used requires a minimum string length of 8 panels. How did the installer configure the array? 1 string of 15 or 1 string of 8 and 1 string of 7. Most likely it is 1 string of 15, but we shouldn't assume anything with this install.

There is "full sun" but are the panels oriented the same direction and is there really full sun? The panels selected were 120 half cut cells, 6 bus bar design that are more shade tolerant than most panels. For a truly full sun, same panel orientation house, a standard run of the mill 60 cell panel would work fine. Are half cut cell duo panels mainstream now? It's been 4 years since my purchase and things have been moving quickly.

[silversaver]

People are not been educate about solar. Most of my friends only interest in getting $0 out the pocket and they can have saving every month cheaper that what they pay then they will go with it. When I ask them more questions and they knew nothing. Most of them start using more electricity since they believe they got solar and paying lower rate at 16 cents per kWh on lease and start driving Tesla. You don't need to understand solar, but you need to know the basic math. I don't think I knew any salesperson that doesn't recommend bigger system haha.

[silversaver]

I will add to those comments by saying the there are a lot of people that are tricked into thinking a leased vehicle is cheaper then a purchased one. Based on what I see and heard unless you can write off a lease you will always be spending much more then financing a vehicle. The same goes for solar pv systems. Leasing is a scam that leans toward to seller and not the buyer.

I always lease car from last 20 years. Lease isn't a scam. You just have to understand what you are looking for and make the right decision. That apply to the solar lease too. You just have to understand what you are signing for instead of making wrong decision. Every contract has term and condition that you have to agree first. I see good solar lease from time to time too. You can buy car at bargain and you can also pay premium for a car as todays market

[mustardjo]

What is the location of ESP? They are either a franchise or have offices in several cities in California.

They are located in Torrance Calif

[scrambler]

I always lease car from last 20 years. Lease isn't a scam. You just have to understand what you are looking for and make the right decision. That apply to the solar lease too. You just have to understand what you are signing for instead of making wrong decision. Every contract has term and condition that you have to agree first. I see good solar lease from time to time too. You can buy car at bargain and you can also pay premium for a car as todays market

You can't compare car lease with Solar leases.

Car leases are simple, they are standalone, they are short, it just comes down to liking the cost benefit ratio or not

Solar leases are wicked , Decades long, entangled with your home, and full of small prints that change the efficiency of the deal overtime, and create all kinds of traps and road blocks for the homeowner years in the future....
It is very difficult for the average homeowner to fully understand the ramification of the deal years in the future, and they usually find out the hard way when it is too late.

And this is why they closely resemble Scams