Florida Net Metering Changes Will Destroy the Industry

[MattSl]

What's the payback period for the 4 PW's?

There is no payback period for the PWs, at least not for me. It's an investment, like a generator.

Perhaps there is some payback over time with the units, filling in the gaps at night and such. But, it would be > 10 years, which would be about the time I'd need to look at new batteries. From my research on solar, batteries are the hardest item to achieve ROI on. Perhaps in some areas where power companies have high peak rates it may get closer to paying for itself. You get batteries if you are off-grid, want to minimize usage during peak times/rates, or, use it as a generator.

I figure in 10 years, we should have far better battery technology. Or maybe I'll have a Mr Fusion.

[SunEagle]

In my area (NE Florida) its 10.7c a unit for the first 1,000 KWh a month; then it is 13.3c for each KWh after that. We moved here from Tampa and the rates were similar down there.

That sounds about right. I am up in Brooksville with Withlacoochee electric. For us the first 1000kWh was about 8.5c and then 8.8c/kWh above the first 1000kWh so I am doing much better here but it becomes much harder to justify solar with such a low rate.

[mjs020294]

That sounds about right. I am up in Brooksville with Withlacoochee electric. For us the first 1000kWh was about 8.5c and then 8.8c/kWh above the first 1000kWh so I am doing much better here but it becomes much harder to justify solar with such a low rate.

Our rate went up about one cent this month plus we have to pay 1.2 cents a unit to storm/hurricane fund. Not sure if that storm charge is everywhere in Florida or just coastal ZIPs.

[SunEagle]

Our rate went up about one cent this month plus we have to pay 1.2 cents a unit to storm/hurricane fund. Not sure if that storm charge is everywhere in Florida or just coastal ZIPs.

I have not had an increase in electric rates or fuel for years. And so far no additions for storm funds.

[mjs020294]

I have not had an increase in electric rates or fuel for years. And so far no additions for storm funds.

Hard to make a financial argument for solar with the rates you are paying. Even at my current rates its only really makes financial sense if you get a PV system installed for under $1:50kw after rebates.

[mjs020294]

The Florida Net Metering bill has been amended in committee. The grandfather clause is now 20 years instead of 10. The proposed draw back on net metering is now phased in over eight years: thru 2023 full retail credit, 2024-2026 75% retail credit, 2027-2028 50% retail credit and then from 2029 onward the credit will be wholesale cost. The twenty year grandfathering is based off the tariff when your solar is installed.

[SunEagle]

The Florida Net Metering bill has been amended in committee. The grandfather clause is now 20 years instead of 10. The proposed draw back on net metering is now phased in over eight years: thru 2023 full retail credit, 2024-2026 75% retail credit, 2027-2028 50% retail credit and then from 2029 onward the credit will be wholesale cost. The twenty year grandfathering is based off the tariff when your solar is installed.

Well at least some people will be able to continue to justify solar. The sad part is even if my rates go from $0.085/kWh to $0.12/kWh I am still looking at more then a 12 year payback.

[J.P.M.]

Well at least some people will be able to continue to justify solar. The sad part is even if my rates go from $0.085/kWh to $0.12/kWh I am still looking at more then a 12 year payback.

Looking at the bigger picture, I wouldn't be sad about those rates.

[mjs020294]

Well at least some people will be able to continue to justify solar. The sad part is even if my rates go from $0.085/kWh to $0.12/kWh I am still looking at more then a 12 year payback.

I agree ROI and payback time is important but there are other factors to consider. Solar can help protect you from energy price increases plus many go solar to reduce green house gases. However at $0:085/kWh its hard to justify solar from a financial standpoint.

[J.P.M.]

I agree ROI and payback time is important but there are other factors to consider. Solar can help protect you from energy price increases plus many go solar to reduce green house gases. However at $0:085/kWh its hard to justify solar from a financial standpoint.

I've been around solar energy in its many iterations for about a half century. I can't think of anyone I've met, read of or heard about who was thinking about or had acquired some form of residential solar energy device(s) who did so for anything other than the primary and usually sole purpose of saving money.

Sort of like all the treehuggers going to save the planet rallies way out some pristine place in the desert of some other remote place in their gas guzzing SUVs 1 or 2 people per vehicle, saving the planet is a nice idea, but there's a disconnect in most people's mind between their personal actions (like turning off a light for example) and the personal impact one can have on the environment by their actions that are both good and bad for the environment. I chalk it off to ignorance and arrogance. To my experience, environmentalism is a red herring used mostly by people with skin in the game to make people feel good, but it's the bottom line (perceived) savings that counts for most everyone I have personal knowledge of.

In the end, residential alternate energy is, like most everything else, driven by creating the perception of a need. The idea of saving the planet and linking it say, to improving the quality of life for the fruit of their loins is often icing on the desert cake. But the (usually immediate) bottom line of perceived and immediate $$ savings is what closes sales and what counts.

More than a little ironically, I've found that usually and largely because of user ignorance about energy use and solar limitations in particular, vendor greed and people being pissed off and wanting to get even with the POCO (about mostly self-inflicted high energy bills), more than a small number of folks with residential PV wound up being less well off financially than if they had done nothing. Seen it enough times to sincerely believe it's true, possible examples being all the folks who bought overpriced Sunpower stuff with no real benefit or anyone who grossly oversized a PV system.

There may be other factors to consider, but they pale to insignificance compared to the bottom line.
The best and most cost effective way to deal with energy price increases is by simply turning stuff off (you don't pay for what you don't use) and then other conservation measures that reduce the remaining load even more.

For those truly concerned about saving the planet, I'd suggest they consider the impact of large price increases in the cost of energy. Hitting people, in the wallet usually gets their attention and action faster than concepts they can't connect to their daily existence.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[SunEagle]

I agree ROI and payback time is important but there are other factors to consider. Solar can help protect you from energy price increases plus many go solar to reduce green house gases. However at $0:085/kWh its hard to justify solar from a financial standpoint.

I agree that justifying solar is hard for me but I really wanted to be using solar by now. It just doesn't make financial sense. There are a lot of other paces I should spend the money.

[mjs020294]

I agree that justifying solar is hard for me but I really wanted to be using solar by now. It just doesn't make financial sense. There are a lot of other paces I should spend the money.

Unfortunately the price of solar is pretty high in the US. I believe solar is about $1 per watt in Australia; couple that with average energy prices of $0:23kWh and going solar is a no brainer down-under.

[SunEagle]

Unfortunately the price of solar is pretty high in the US. I believe solar is about $1 per watt in Australia; couple that with average energy prices of $0:23kWh and going solar is a no brainer down-under.

Yeah and with the USA POCO's trying to reduce the Net metering rules it becomes even less of a reason for a homeowner to go solar.

[mjs020294]

Yeah and with the USA POCO's trying to reduce the Net metering rules it becomes even less of a reason for a homeowner to go solar.

Its worth noting a 7.6kw PV system would be considered huge in Australia. The US really needs to get to grips with energy consumption before worrying about solar and alternative sources of energy.

[J.P.M.]

Its worth noting a 7.6kw PV system would be considered huge in Australia. The US really needs to get to grips with energy consumption before worrying about solar and alternative sources of energy.

Conservation and attitudes about it are always wise precursors to more generation.

Unfortunately, a conservation ethic has never been a part of the American ethos.