Florida Net Metering Changes Will Destroy the Industry

[SunEagle]

If someone is talking about savings it blatantly obvious it is KWh they are talking about. If you want to make an issue about that it says a whole lot more about you TBH.

OK guys play nice or take it outside.

[azdave]

The PUC's in a lot of states are being pressured into changing the solar Net metering rules.

That's what happens when utility companies are allowed to take profits from their customers and turn it into dark money contributions to the candidates trying to get elected to the PUC. That's exactly what occurred here in Arizona. A Public Utility Commission is supposed to protect consumers from an overly aggressive public monopoly but APS gave their favorite candidates political groups millions of dollar to help two of them get elected to open seats. Soon after those candidates were elected, solar customer's costs went up and grid-tie agreements became far more in favor of the utilities. APS denied those dark money charges for many years but then finally admitted it was completely true.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/energy/2019/03/29/arizona-public-service-admits-spending-millions-2014-corporation-commission-races/3317121002/

After years of refusing to acknowledge it, Arizona's biggest electric company on Friday affirmed that it donated millions to dark-money political groups in 2014 that helped elect two candidates who would set prices APS charges customers.

Arizona Public Service and its parent company, Pinnacle West Capital Corp., made the disclosure in a response to requests from regulators, including a subpoena from one elected to replace a commissioner APS helped into office.

The disclosure showed that in 2014, Pinnacle West gave $12.9 million to 16 different political groups. The company said in its letter to the commission that $10.7 million went to groups that contributed to the Corporation Commission elections that year.

The five Corporation Commissioners set rates and policies for APS and other regulated utilities.

[MattSl]

For me, my monthly electric bills are $350-$400 a month, mostly due to my woodworking hobby.

Even if the proposed Florida bill makes it through, it won't affect my decision to have solar installed. My electric company already only pays back $0.03/kwh, my ROI is solely on reducing the electric bills down to meter costs, ~$12/month.

It's about 8.5 years ROI on a 20.4kw system (not counting the batteries, those are just the cost of wanting self-sufficiency). It's also my long-term protection against rising electric bills.

I do have concern over the 'solar tax', taxing solar power system owners.

[SunEagle]

For me, my monthly electric bills are $350-$400 a month, mostly due to my woodworking hobby.

Even if the proposed Florida bill makes it through, it won't affect my decision to have solar installed. My electric company already only pays back $0.03/kwh, my ROI is solely on reducing the electric bills down to meter costs, ~$12/month.

It's about 8.5 years ROI on a 20.4kw system (not counting the batteries, those are just the cost of wanting self-sufficiency). It's also my long-term protection against rising electric bills.

I do have concern over the 'solar tax', taxing solar power system owners.

Wow an electric bill that high comes either high rates or high usage. I hope solar gets you what you want. Oh and don't be fooled into thinking that having batteries will get you to be self sufficient because even batteries fail after while and the cost for new ones will be high.

[mjs020294]

For me, my monthly electric bills are $350-$400 a month, mostly due to my woodworking hobby.

Even if the proposed Florida bill makes it through, it won't affect my decision to have solar installed. My electric company already only pays back $0.03/kwh, my ROI is solely on reducing the electric bills down to meter costs, ~$12/month.

It's about 8.5 years ROI on a 20.4kw system (not counting the batteries, those are just the cost of wanting self-sufficiency). It's also my long-term protection against rising electric bills.

I do have concern over the 'solar tax', taxing solar power system owners.

If you are adding batteries net metering is not really a major part of the equation.

The $0.03 payback only applies to excessive production at the end of the year. For many customers net metering is actually saving them 13.3 cents a KWh for electricity exported to the grid and used later. The new bill drops that net metering offset all the way down to $0:025. Anyone using a 20-25 year loan is going to be under water in ten years.

Another consideration is battery life. You could very well need to replace them in ten years so the costs could spiral.

[mjs020294]

Wow an electric bill that high comes either high rates or high usage. I hope solar gets you what you want. Oh and don't be fooled into thinking that having batteries will get you to be self sufficient because even batteries fail after while and the cost for new ones will be high.

In my area of Florida that size bill would equate to around 34,000 KWh a year.

[MattSl]

My electric usage is quite high. Lots of tools, some run 6-8 hours a day. I also understand that batteries need replacing ~ every 10 years. From my perspective, I'd never achieve ROI on them. I count those as partial protection for power outages versus buying and maintaining a generator. Of course, during a power outage, my wood shop hobby will have to wait, but my wife's hot water and laundry will not.

[mjs020294]

My electric usage is quite high. Lots of tools, some run 6-8 hours a day. I also understand that batteries need replacing ~ every 10 years. From my perspective, I'd never achieve ROI on them. I count those as partial protection for power outages versus buying and maintaining a generator. Of course, during a power outage, my wood shop hobby will have to wait, but my wife's hot water and laundry will not.

With your consumption you will need quite a large battery bank to protect you from the proposed net metering bill.

[MattSl]

Yes, if I kept the same usage during an outage. My usage drops considerably when I'm not in the shop, which would be put on hold when power is out. To support everything else, I have (4) PW+ being installed.

[mjs020294]

Yes, if I kept the same usage during an outage. My usage drops considerably when I'm not in the shop, which would be put on hold when power is out. To support everything else, I have (4) PW+ being installed.

I am curious about your workshop usage. You mentioned it was an hobby so I am presuming its just you working in the workshop. My pool pump is 1.5HP and runs for around eight hours a day 365 days a year. That pump/motor is consuming under 4,000KWh annually. 1.5HP is a sizable motor, more than capable of running most woodworking equipment. Even if you were running three machines eight hours a day 365 days a year in would barely account for 1/3 of you total consumption.

[MattSl]

Well, I've got a few commercial dust collectors, air cleaners, a pair of CNC machines, high power laser cutter - those typically run for hours at a time. Then I have a split AC, among my usual woodworking tools. I do also have pool equipment, HP pool heater. I have a big family, so our laundry machines run pretty much nonstop. It all adds, up, but a good 50% is my shop. Think like Christmas Vacation, when Clark turned on his Christmas lights. That's me, turning up the shop.

[solardreamer]

Yes, if I kept the same usage during an outage. My usage drops considerably when I'm not in the shop, which would be put on hold when power is out. To support everything else, I have (4) PW+ being installed.

What's the payback period for the 4 PW's?

[SunEagle]

In my area of Florida that size bill would equate to around 34,000 KWh a year.

Wow. That is still a lot of money even at 2850kWh a month. I usually average maybe $222/month. My highest bill since I have lived in the home since 2018 was $306 where we consumed 3161kWh in August 2020 and that was about $0.085/kWh so I wonder what MattSl is paying for electricity.

[mjs020294]

Wow. That is still a lot of money even at 2850kWh a month. I usually average maybe $222/month. My highest bill since I have lived in the home since 2018 was $306 where we consumed 3161kWh in August 2020 and that was about $0.085/kWh so I wonder what MattSl is paying for electricity.

In my area (NE Florida) its 10.7c a unit for the first 1,000 KWh a month; then it is 13.3c for each KWh after that. We moved here from Tampa and the rates were similar down there.

[mjs020294]

What's the payback period for the 4 PW's?

In the next ten years there is not much benefit in terms of payback. IF the net metering bill passes the PWs will have a 8-9 year payback. That is why I am concentrating on energy conservation and adding a smaller system now. In a few years if the prices of solar and batteries drop I will double my solar and add batteries.