Request for input on solar proposal - Q Cells and Enphase Microinverters

[mjs020294]

i don’t regret getting solar but I’m much happier about the $2k I spent having insulation blown into my attic. That made the biggest difference by far. I also found out that my hot tub was responsible for half my electric bill. I installed a heat pump at the same time and now don’t use my oil burner. Essentially I save $10k a year on electric and oil.

This is how I would have done it if I knew then what I know now.

1) Insulate
2) Figure out what is using power. My hot tub was costing me $1500 a year to run. I insulated it and switch it off in the winter.
3) Get a heat pump and upgrade my pool pump and water heater to variable speed and heat pump.
4) Finally possibly get or not get solar. Make sure that it’s oversized and you have less then a 5 year payback. It really is very marginal and the utilities are going all out to kill it. Without net metering it makes limited sense for me at least.


I did everything at once but solar was the most expensive by far.

Taking a good look at your pre-solar consumption is an absolute must. Buying a system for what might be over consumption is a very expensive purchase. We averaged around 55kw a day for the year before getting solar quotes. Our house is reasonably insulated and we have LED bulbs in most fitting. However by switching out a ten year hot water heater for a new hybrid unit, reducing the pool pump hours while increasing the chlorinator output and decommissioning an old freezer saved us over 15kw a day.

[Cshama]

I think counting on any solar company or net metering rule will be around in 5 years is a stretch. Apparently I’m grandfathered in for 20 years in New York.. but we will see.

My net cost after incentives was $1.14/watt. And I have the ideal situation in terms of non obstructed south facing roof. My apparent payoff is 4 years or so given that Coned charges 21 cents, one of the highest rates in the country after California and Hawaii.

But I consider solar marginal economically even in my case. Basically I have to stay out for at least 4 more years which I was intending but now I’m not even sure.

A lot of the solar math is contingent on you staying put for 25 years and net metering rules never changing. It’s a bit of a scam. The solar salesmen sell on the basis of reducing your monthly bill but over a ridiculous time period before you pay off the loan.

i don’t regret getting solar but I’m much happier about the $2k I spent having insulation blown into my attic. That made the biggest difference by far. I also found out that my hot tub was responsible for half my electric bill. I installed a heat pump at the same time and now don’t use my oil burner. Essentially I save $10k a year on electric and oil.

This is how I would have done it if I knew then what I know now.

1) Insulate
2) Figure out what is using power. My hot tub was costing me $1500 a year to run. I insulated it and switch it off in the winter.
3) Get a heat pump and upgrade my pool pump and water heater to variable speed and heat pump.
4) Finally possibly get or not get solar. Make sure that it’s oversized and you have less then a 5 year payback. It really is very marginal and the utilities are going all out to kill it. Without net metering it makes limited sense for me at least.


I did everything at once but solar was the most expensive by far.

[SunEagle]

Oh Tesla are definitely different to deal with. Once you get the direct lines of your project coordinator and local liaison its must less frustrating. I have actually heard some could stories of things they have done for customers as well. At the end of the day if a product has a 20-25 year warranty its not much use if the go bust after seven years. Of all the companies out there I am more confident Tesla will still be in operation in 2050. Customer service is much good once the company that provided the service goes out of business.

The problem is that company that was purchased by Tesla was around in Nevada and then left when the Net metering rules were eliminated along with most of the installers. And the PUC is looking at changes to the Net metering rules in Florida which could make any ROI very long.

Also the warranty does not mean much to me because I won't be alive in 2050 so I really doubt solar will ever work for me.

[mjs020294]

I believe that some installers/manufacturers do not have the same support system as others. I also have some reservations concerning Tesla but that is based on people that have already tried to get them to solve a problem with their system. So Tesla would be one company that I would be very careful of and get their promises written in someone's blood.

Oh Tesla are definitely different to deal with. Once you get the direct lines of your project coordinator and local liaison its must less frustrating. I have actually heard some could stories of things they have done for customers as well. At the end of the day if a product has a 20-25 year warranty its not much use if the go bust after seven years. Of all the companies out there I am more confident Tesla will still be in operation in 2050. Customer service is much good once the company that provided the service goes out of business.

[SunEagle]

I don't really care about previous installations. Whoever installs my system has the worst supervisor and project manager on earth to try and please, ME. I have installed main panels, and know how roofing systems work so I am fairly confident any work will be done to the highest standards. If I have any reservation or complaints they don't get paid.

As for bang for the buck unless system 'A' generates significantly more electricity that system 'B' there really isn't any benefits. Ignorance would be not doing a full home evaluation months before contacting solar companies and reducing consumption. Ignorance would be not fully understanding the cost benefits in terms of ROI when lost opportunity costs are also factored in. Installing solar in Florida is not a cost saving exercise if you pay much more than $1:50kw after rebates, even if you are paying cash.

As for bottom feeder companies my definition of that category would be the ones that are sales driven. The type of companies that sell people more solar than they really need or at prices that will NEVER give the customer a ROI. I had quotes from a couple of the major players in my area and they were ridiculous expensive. One wanted to charge $3:16 after rebates; that would have to be one very special system to justify the up charges. A neighbor was sold a lovely system by a major brand and his monthly payments over twenty years are 25% higher than his old electric bill. I feel seriously sorry for the folks that get over sold systems that will never really have a ROI.

I believe that some installers/manufacturers do not have the same support system as others. I also have some reservations concerning Tesla but that is based on people that have already tried to get them to solve a problem with their system. So Tesla would be one company that I would be very careful of and get their promises written in someone's blood.

[mjs020294]

As have I. Except I've seen and been involved in reviewing and observing lots of work from over 125 residential installs done by both good and bad by companies local, regional and national done on homes owned by folks as solar ignorant as you seem to be.

IMO only, SolarCity and its worse evil offspring Tesla are one of the bottom feeders of the solar industry. You can do a lot better for your long term buck once you get out of the low initial price trap you seem to be in. Like most, you don't know what you don't know.

Suit yourself.

Good luck.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

I don't really care about previous installations. Whoever installs my system has the worst supervisor and project manager on earth to try and please, ME. I have installed main panels, and know how roofing systems work so I am fairly confident any work will be done to the highest standards. If I have any reservation or complaints they don't get paid.

As for bang for the buck unless system 'A' generates significantly more electricity that system 'B' there really isn't any benefits. Ignorance would be not doing a full home evaluation months before contacting solar companies and reducing consumption. Ignorance would be not fully understanding the cost benefits in terms of ROI when lost opportunity costs are also factored in. Installing solar in Florida is not a cost saving exercise if you pay much more than $1:50kw after rebates, even if you are paying cash.

As for bottom feeder companies my definition of that category would be the ones that are sales driven. The type of companies that sell people more solar than they really need or at prices that will NEVER give the customer a ROI. I had quotes from a couple of the major players in my area and they were ridiculous expensive. One wanted to charge $3:16 after rebates; that would have to be one very special system to justify the up charges. A neighbor was sold a lovely system by a major brand and his monthly payments over twenty years are 25% higher than his old electric bill. I feel seriously sorry for the folks that get over sold systems that will never really have a ROI.

[J.P.M.]

I have heard bad things about other companies as well. At the end of the day your 25 year warranty will mean very little if the company as gone bust. I am fairly confident Tesla will be around 25+ years. Charge the install to American Express and if there are any issues the first three months dispute the charge and let their legal department deal with Tesla. Once the system is up and running the chances are it will be stable.

As have I. Except I've seen and been involved in reviewing and observing lots of work from over 125 residential installs done by both good and bad by companies local, regional and national done on homes owned by folks as solar ignorant as you seem to be.

IMO only, SolarCity and its worse evil offspring Tesla are one of the bottom feeders of the solar industry. You can do a lot better for your long term buck once you get out of the low initial price trap you seem to be in. Like most, you don't know what you don't know.

Suit yourself.

Good luck.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[Ampster]

....... Enjoy your problems if you buy from them.

To save $1,000 per kW some people will put up with the hassle of dealing with Tesla. We all have different risk/reward profiles.
On other forums I have seen examples of how people have sucessfully managed a Tesla install to save that kind of money. Not everyone has that ability or the tolerance for that kind of hassle, but for those that do, there is money to be saved.

[mjs020294]

Unfortunately, it's Tesla - one of the solar bottom feeders. Enjoy your problems if you buy from them.

I have heard bad things about other companies as well. At the end of the day your 25 year warranty will mean very little if the company as gone bust. I am fairly confident Tesla will be around 25+ years. Charge the install to American Express and if there are any issues the first three months dispute the charge and let their legal department deal with Tesla. Once the system is up and running the chances are it will be stable.

[J.P.M.]

Telsa solar panels are $2kw before rebates.

Unfortunately, it's Tesla - one of the solar bottom feeders. Enjoy your problems if you buy from them.

[mjs020294]

Interesting. I live up in Brooksville. Who is your installer?

All of the solar companies that have contacted me want to install Enphase or Micros which I do not need and cost over $3/watt

All you need to do is click order on the website and enter your address. It will give you a price; you can change the size of the system and remove Powerwalls. Once you order they take care of everything, and the $250 deposit is refundable anytime prior to final approval after install. On the website they sell four set system sizes (4.8, 9.6, 14.4, 19.2) but you can add or remove panels during the design phase; the cost per panel KW is the same no matter what size system you get.

https://www.tesla.com/solarpanels

[SunEagle]

Yes they are. I am in Florida and I am scheduled for installed on a 9.775kw system that is costing $19,400 before rebates. So $1:99 before rebates and $1:47 after the tax credit. Tesla don't really distinguish between location.

Interesting. I live up in Brooksville. Who is your installer?

All of the solar companies that have contacted me want to install Enphase or Micros which I do not need and cost over $3/watt

[mjs020294]

Unfortunately not in Florida.

Yes they are. I am in Florida and I am scheduled for installed on a 9.775kw system that is costing $19,400 before rebates. So $1:99 before rebates and $1:47 after the tax credit. Tesla don't really distinguish between location.

[SunEagle]

Telsa solar panels are $2kw before rebates.

Unfortunately not in Florida.

[mjs020294]

I will say you can't find that $2/watt installation cost in Florida either. I have used that value as a reason for not installing solar yet. Unless I can get the price down to that amount I am looking at 12 years or more for any payback. That would put me at 80 yo which is way too long for me.

Telsa solar panels are $2kw before rebates.