SCE forcing me off TOU-D-A

[gvl]

The TOU-D-A is finally ending for me in August, which is about 7 years and 2 months since the PTO was granted in 2015, not too bad, I think I broke even on my investment or close by now. In the letter they messed up and estimate that the new plan I'll be switched over by default will be as good as the TOU-D-A which I thought was too good to be true, but in a follow up e-mail it shows it will be $600 more expensive which is in the ballpark of what I expected. Domestic is estimated to be only $170 more expensive, so this is what I'll be switching to.

[jasonvr]

The TOU-D-A is finally ending for me in August, which is about 7 years and 2 months since the PTO was granted in 2015, not too bad, I think I broke even on my investment or close by now. In the letter they messed up and estimate that the new plan I'll be switched over by default will be as good as the TOU-D-A which I thought was too good to be true, but in a follow up e-mail it shows it will be $600 more expensive which is in the ballpark of what I expected. Domestic is estimated to be only $170 more expensive, so this is what I'll be switching to.

At the end of this month my 5th year of NEM will end an it will be equally split between TOU-D-A and domestic Tiered. Thank goodness for the 6 months on TOU-D-A because it is going to mean this year I still won't owe anything. Next year though..... I'm about $1500 out from payback on the solar though, so still an overall positive. I've looked at adding a few panels to close the gap on the tiered rate, but I'm not convinced it will pay itself back in a reasonable period of time

[silversaver]

The TOU-D-A is finally ending for me in August, which is about 7 years and 2 months since the PTO was granted in 2015, not too bad, I think I broke even on my investment or close by now. In the letter they messed up and estimate that the new plan I'll be switched over by default will be as good as the TOU-D-A which I thought was too good to be true, but in a follow up e-mail it shows it will be $600 more expensive which is in the ballpark of what I expected. Domestic is estimated to be only $170 more expensive, so this is what I'll be switching to.

It really depends on your usage. I just switch from TOU-D-A to Domestic tier plan last Dec 2021 since my solar activates in Dec 2013. My solar is still cover 100% of my home usage, but not enough to cover my EV. Take a look of your true up statement for 12 months and see what is your net consumption to make the switch.

[gvl]

It really depends on your usage. I just switch from TOU-D-A to Domestic tier plan last Dec 2021 since my solar activates in Dec 2013. My solar is still cover 100% of my home usage, but not enough to cover my EV. Take a look of your true up statement for 12 months and see what is your net consumption to make the switch.

Yeah, more or less the same here, EV usage will be out of pocket. I can’t think of a scenario when the new TOU structure can be better than tiered with solar, maybe if you don’t consume anything during on-peak but that’s not realistic for 99% of population.

[Ampster]

Yeah, more or less the same here, EV usage will be out of pocket. I can’t think of a scenario when the new TOU structure can be better than tiered with solar, maybe if you don’t consume anything during on-peak but that’s not realistic for 99% of population.

I have been on TOU rates with EVs for over ten years. In the past I was a net consumer of 1000 kWhs or more but was able to have a net dollar credit. That is increasingly difficult to do with Non Bypassable Charges, Miniimum Delivery Charges and changes in TOU tariffs. I never thought I would say this but I agree that 99% of the population with just solar would be better off on a tiered rate. In the future, with rates and TOU time periods in California changing for the worse, batteries will become more useful in California to reduce power charges.

[gvl]

Batteries add upfront and repair cost. I haven’t been keeping up with the solar economics of late. How do things pencil out in the NEM2/3 reality and new TOU intervals? Can you break even in under 10 years with a system that uses batteries?

[Ampster]

Batteries add upfront and repair cost. I haven’t been keeping up with the solar economics of late. How do things pencil out in the NEM2/3 reality and new TOU intervals? Can you break even in under 10 years with a system that uses batteries?

No, I do not think I will get to break even in under ten years. My goal has been to provide resiliency (backup}, reduce my cost of energy, and provide a hedge against erosion of NEM benefits and increasing rates.
I charge two EVs and have recently installed a minisplit heat pump to replace an old inefficient Forced Air Unit. I will be replacing a natural gas water heater with with a HPWH. The upfront cost of 42 kWh of LFP batteries was $125 per kWh and in two years they have not needed any repair or maintenance. I expect to get at least ten years out of them and the hybrid inverter. They have reduced the cost of energy and provided resiliency but the payback on the hedge is yet to be determined. I have had more expensive hobbies.

[silversaver]

I don't think battery were design to save money. My co-worker has just start to shop for Tesla Powerwall (3 in total) add on to his 40 panels solar. He needs the backup system for his family need. I believe the quote were about $42k. He is still shopping. I have friend spent 6 digits install Tesla solar and batteries bragging he spend nothing gasoline. I was like "how did you get that idea?" Tell me about it when you see people spend over $72k for a Y model just for that self driving.

[Ampster]

I don't think battery were design to save money.

I agree, battery systems are designed to store energy. Storing energy and using it to offset high rates may allow someone to save money depending on the rate structure.

My co-worker has just start to shop for Tesla Powerwall (3 in total) add on to his 40 panels solar. He needs the backup system for his family need. I believe the quote were about $42k. He is still shopping. I have friend spent 6 digits install Tesla solar and batteries bragging he spend way less than gasoline. I was like "how did you get that idea?"

I had an order for two Tesla Powerwalls and was going to get an SGIP rebate. I did the math and figured I could do a DIY system for a lot less than the net cost after rebates. I have been driving EVs for ten years and probably driven 200,000 miles and saved a lot of money that i would have spent on gasoline. I would rather have two EVs in the garage than three Tesla Powerwalls.

[silversaver]

I agree, battery systems are designed to store energy. Storing energy and using it to offset high rates may allow someone to save money depending on the rate structure.

I had an order for two Tesla Powerwalls and was going to get an SGIP rebate. I did the math and figured I could do a DIY system for a lot less than the net cost after rebates. I have been driving EVs for ten years and probably driven 200,000 miles and saved a lot of money that i would have spent on gasoline. I would rather have two EVs in the garage than three Tesla Powerwalls.

I really don't see how 3 Tesla and 5 Powerwalls will save him money in short run. Spent over $100k for solar and batteries system on a single family home just too much haha

I have been driving 2 EV and 1 gasoline car since 2013. The old TOU-D-A make lots sense doing that. I am down to one EV now after switch back to Tier plan.

[Ampster]

.............
I have been driving 2 EV and 1 gasoline car since 2013. The old TOU-D-A make lots sense doing that. I am down to one EV now after switch back to Tier plan.

SCE still offers and EV rate don't they? TOU only works if you can leverage the rates. That is harder to do with the way the rates are designed. I expect to consume more from the grid than I send back but my batteries will help me reduce the cost of that Net power. It is the seasonal differences between production and consumption that batteries cannot span. I have to use the grid as a battery in my situation. However, during summer my batteries should eliminate the peak period consumption at $0.53 per kWh.

[silversaver]

SCE still offers and EV rate don't they? TOU only works if you can leverage the rates. That is harder to do with the way the rates are designed. I expect to consume more from the grid than I send back but my batteries will help me reduce the cost of that Net power. It is the seasonal differences between production and consumption that batteries cannot span. I have to use the grid as a battery in my situation. However, during summer my batteries should eliminate the peak period consumption at $0.53 per kWh.

The TOU-D-A is not the same as today's new TOU plan. The old plan you can get higher credit on solar production and charge EV during the super off peak rate between 10pm to 8am. The new TOU only offer you high credit between 4-9 pm. Your solar output isn't much after 4pm. That is the hours with the highest power consumption for normal family. Unless you are focus on EV charging as majority of your power consumption. Your solar production get less credit to cover the peak hours usage which mean you either get super large solar system or batteries to offset the difference which will increase you overall cost of solar system with way longer return.

[Ampster]

The TOU-D-A is not the same as today's new TOU plan.

Nothing is the same. Change is inevitable so all I can do try to do is anticipate the change and plan strategies to hedge against further erosion of benefits. As I said, TOU only works if you can leverage the benefits. I do not have a choice, except to try to do that.

...... The new TOU only offer you high credit between 4-9 pm. Your solar output isn't much after 4pm. That is the hours with the highest power consumption for normal family. Unless you are focus on EV charging as majority of your power consumption. Your solar production get less credit to cover the peak hours usage which mean you either get super large solar system or batteries to offset the difference which will increase you overall cost of solar system with way longer return.

I have never been accused of being a normal family. That is exactly why I have a "super large solar system" AND batteries. I now also charge my EVs during the day from solar and only charge at night if going on a trip and wanting to start the morning with a full battery, I also get a longer return than might be acceptable to some but my cost of funds is probably different also. I am not disagreeing with anything you are saying. I just want other readers to realize there are many ways to deal with the issues we all face. It all depends on where you are standing.

[silversaver]

I don't mean that "normal family", I should have say for my family. The original plan for solar were to cover the home electricity consumption. I guess the EV surface + high gasoline price make power consumption much higher than before. I do agree the EV will save money compare with gasoline prices. If each kWh price increase and gasoline price drop below $4 which will make EV less valuable when there are 50mpg+ hybrid cars. I start driving EV believe it will save the environment for my kids, but understand the source of power, resource and recycle for battery got me confuse.

[gvl]

I don't mean that "normal family", I should have say for my family. The original plan for solar were to cover the home electricity consumption. I guess the EV surface + high gasoline price make power consumption much higher than before. I do agree the EV will save money compare with gasoline prices. If each kWh price increase and gasoline price drop below $4 which will make EV less valuable when there are 50mpg+ hybrid cars. I start driving EV believe it will save the environment for my kids, but understand the source of power, resource and recycle for battery got me confuse.

EV is a gamble. An out of pocket out of warranty battery replacement will erase all savings.