How many of you were able to activate your sun power panels on your own?

[J.P.M.]

Thank you for the information. I'm pretty new to this whole solar panel thing thats why i thought that maybe washing them woud improve the output. I have a FU question, I wasnt there when the sun power guy came to the house but my wife was there. he was telling her the solar panels should be producing more that each panel is capable is producing around 300 W... so thats why i was thinking of washing....

You're welcome.

Washing an array will improve it's output but unless they are very fouled or unless there are onsite instruments, it's very difficult to get an idea of how much improvement in output is achieved.
Panel fouling characteristics, fouling rates and fouling patterns are very site dependent as well as having likely seasonal characteristics. I believe my rates as described are perhaps typical of suburban and semi rural environments, but even if it is typical, it's only one location.

As for what the peddler said, it's a bit of a matter of interpretation. When "flash" tested immediately after manufacture, panels produce a few % more than their rated output. That's the way their designed and rated. However, because stationary panels are only normal to the beam irradiance 2X/year, about the best real world output that can be expected for mostly equator facing arrays is for arrays that have just been cleaned and are oriented at some tilt to the horizontal of maybe latitude plus or minus 10 degrees or so on a clear spring day with moderate ambient temps. and a good breeze blowing for maybe an hour or so around solar noon. That power output might be 85 or so % of the array's STC (rated) output, maybe a bit more. This is not an exact science.

Looked at another way on an annual basis, my array turns ~ 17 % of the insolation that hits it into electricity and that's pretty good as those things go.

[Lil12002]

You do know that under normal operating conditions a system will rarely if ever produce it's STC rating for more than a couple of minutes. Under clear skies this time of year a shade free system will likely produce ~ 80 - 90% of STC rating or so, right ?

4.5/5.25 = 0.86 or so. Sounds about right to me. Cleaning, while always a good idea, will probably get you a few % more unless they're super fouled up.

Take this FWIW and think 2X about hiring the cleaning out.

After more measuring than I'd care to recount and most readers wouldn't want to bother to read, one of the conclusions I've reached over the last 7 years or so is that for my array and location, my array's performance decreases approx. 2/3 to 3/4 of 1% per week if it doesn't rain. That rate seems fairly constant for about 8-10 weeks or so if it doesn't rain and then seems to stay at about 6-8 % or so performance loss due to fouling. I haven't figured that one out yet and I've not seen anything similar in the literature. I once knew something about fouling of heat transfer surfaces in heat exchangers and there is a somewhat similar mechanism of about a half dozen or so that can act on a boiler's heat transfer surfaces where the fouling becomes asymptotic after a period of time.

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT SPRAY WATER ON AN ARRAY WHEN THE PANELS ARE WARM. THIS MEANS HOSING AN ARRAY NO LATER THAN 8 A.M. AND PREFERABLY ON CLOUDY DAYS. REATIVELY COLDER WATER CAN CRACK THE GLAZING.

Anyway, a decent rain (~ 1/4"-1/2") restores about 2/3 or so of the lost performance of a PV array due to fouling as does hosing the array with ~ 3l of tap water per panel and then letting it drip dry. Easy peasy.

I've got hard water full of group II chemicals and it leaves some hard water spots on the array. After comparing cleaning with soap, rinsing with distilled H2O and squeegeing vs. soap and tap water and no squeegeing, both about a dozen over the first couple of years of operation, I wasn't able to measure a benefit or improvement in performance by doing the more detailed and distilled water use over the simple hosing. Besides, after a week or 2 of no rain operation, things are about 1+% fouled and getting dirtier by the day anyhow, so just hose the array again.

While every environment is different, I live in a semi rural environment and I bet my situation is probably not that much different from a lot of others. If I ever stop measuring my array's performance and fouling rate, I've pretty much decided that I'll hose it down 1X/month or so as described if it doesn't rain and accept a 3 % performance penalty or so for fouling.

BTW, commercial cleaning is a complete rip off for what's being charged vs. what's gained by a (temporarily) cleaner array.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

Thank you for the information. I'm pretty new to this whole solar panel thing thats why i thought that maybe washing them woud improve the output. I have a FU question, I wasnt there when the sun power guy came to the house but my wife was there. he was telling her the solar panels should be producing more that each panel is capable is producing around 300 W... so thats why i was thinking of washing....

[J.P.M.]

now i gotta find a way to clean them, they are only producing a max of 4.5 KW at mid day and they are rated for 5.25, there has been some construction by our home for the last few months so i think they are dirty now, i wonder if its worth cleaning them to get that extra .75 kw

Take this FWIW and think 2X about hiring the cleaning out.

After more measuring than I'd care to recount and most readers wouldn't want to bother to read, one of the conclusions I've reached over the last 7 years or so is that for my array and location, my array's performance decreases approx. 2/3 to 3/4 of 1% per week if it doesn't rain. That rate seems fairly constant for about 8-10 weeks or so if it doesn't rain and then seems to stay at about 6-8 % or so performance loss due to fouling. I haven't figured that one out yet and I've not seen anything similar in the literature. I once knew something about fouling of heat transfer surfaces in heat exchangers and there is a somewhat similar mechanism of about a half dozen or so that can act on a boiler's heat transfer surfaces where the fouling becomes asymptotic after a period of time.

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT SPRAY WATER ON AN ARRAY WHEN THE PANELS ARE WARM. THIS MEANS HOSING AN ARRAY NO LATER THAN 8 A.M. AND PREFERABLY ON CLOUDY DAYS. REATIVELY COLDER WATER CAN CRACK THE GLAZING.

Anyway, a decent rain (~ 1/4"-1/2") restores about 2/3 or so of the lost performance of a PV array due to fouling as does hosing the array with ~ 3l of tap water per panel and then letting it drip dry. Easy peasy.

I've got hard water full of group II chemicals and it leaves some hard water spots on the array. After comparing cleaning with soap, rinsing with distilled H2O and squeegeing vs. soap and tap water and no squeegeing, both about a dozen over the first couple of years of operation, I wasn't able to measure a benefit or improvement in performance by doing the more detailed and distilled water use over the simple hosing. Besides, after a week or 2 of no rain operation, things are about 1+% fouled and getting dirtier by the day anyhow, so just hose the array again.

While every environment is different, I live in a semi rural environment and I bet my situation is probably not that much different from a lot of others. If I ever stop measuring my array's performance and fouling rate, I've pretty much decided that I'll hose it down 1X/month or so as described if it doesn't rain and accept a 3 % performance penalty or so for fouling.

BTW, commercial cleaning is a complete rip off for what's being charged vs. what's gained by a (temporarily) cleaner array.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[oregon_phil]

I think Guest is right on the money. The OP has microinverters and for comparison, I calculated my % of STC of my two year old system to be 88% today. Today is a bright, clear, cold, windy day. I figured the OP had 97% efficient microinverters and ~1% accuracy on the Sunpower PVS6. I could not find any specs on the PVS6. Accuracy could be worse, who knows.

I always weigh the cost vs. benefit for cleaning my panels. Ash from last fall's wildfire season caused me to wash my panels. Other than that, I don't worry about it.

When I did wash my panels, I used a safety harness. It only takes one mistake to make all the cleaning in the world not worth it.

[J.P.M.]

now i gotta find a way to clean them, they are only producing a max of 4.5 KW at mid day and they are rated for 5.25, there has been some construction by our home for the last few months so i think they are dirty now, i wonder if its worth cleaning them to get that extra .75 kw

You do know that under normal operating conditions a system will rarely if ever produce it's STC rating for more than a couple of minutes. Under clear skies this time of year a shade free system will likely produce ~ 80 - 90% of STC rating or so, right ?

4.5/5.25 = 0.86 or so. Sounds about right to me. Cleaning, while always a good idea, will probably get you a few % more unless they're super fouled up.

[Lil12002]

Thanks for following up with your status.

now i gotta find a way to clean them, they are only producing a max of 4.5 KW at mid day and they are rated for 5.25, there has been some construction by our home for the last few months so i think they are dirty now, i wonder if its worth cleaning them to get that extra .75 kw

[oregon_phil]

Thanks for following up with your status.

[Lil12002]

So the sun power guy came a few days ago while i was at work but my wife was able to let him in. Here is the screenshot of the app.

[oregon_phil]

I have a GT 10.2kw DC system on an unoccupied outbuilding with an SMA 7.7 string inverter using TIGO TS4-R-O optimizers. You can search my user name to see why I chose a backup generator for my application in a dedicated thread on wildfire backup power.

Another side question, i produced 435 KWH in the month or February, initially i was thinking of getting a Tesla powerBall. Would it be worth it for me with the amount of power i produce?

I understand the enthusiasm for solar. I would suggest reading up a lot on solar power, batteries, your rate structure, etc. You might be making 435kwh solar power in February, but what how much power did you buy from your power company? What did it cost you? Can you explain everything on your power bill? what are your power usage habits? what will they be in the future? If you are putting that much power back on the grid, how come channel 2 on your power meter only says -1.3 kWh? How does the Sunpower reporting app compare to your power bills?

In summary, what problem are you trying to solve? A powerwall (battery) may or may not be a cost effective solution.

My problem definition: What is the best solution for electric backup during wildfire season (no sun) and seasonal storms ("once in a decade" ice storm)?

[Lil12002]

If it is "worth" getting a battery? This question is probably worthy of starting a new thread. You will get tons of comments.

In my case the answer is NO because I wanted a backup system that could take me through wildfires and long power outages.

And Tesla recently announced they will only sell PowerWalls with their solar. ie.not as a separate line item that you could buy.

So whats your setup like?

[oregon_phil]

If it is "worth" getting a battery? This question is probably worthy of starting a new thread. You will get tons of comments.

In my case the answer is NO because I wanted a backup system that could take me through wildfires and long power outages.

And Tesla recently announced they will only sell PowerWalls with their solar. ie.not as a separate line item that you could buy.

[Lil12002]

One last thing. When SunPower comes out to complete your setup, make sure you ask SunPower to explain everything to you such that you understand all of your system components and how they work.

Also, have them explain to you how to access your SunPower account.

Sidebar: If you access your Sunpower PVS6 through a local IP address (i.e. 192.168.1.xx), realize that this address might change when you reboot your router. You could lock down your PVS6 IP address by using DHCP reserve through your router. Static IP would work but is not as easy to manage as DHCP reserve.

Good luck!

Another side question, i produced 435 KWH in the month or February, initially i was thinking of getting a Tesla powerBall. Would it be worth it for me with the amount of power i produce?

[Ampster]

.... now I need to decide if I stay with my power company or go with something called central coast community which pays me 7 cents per KWH as opposed to 2.5 cents from PG&E.... I don’t know if this company has hidden fees....

I answered that question on your other thread. No decision needed, you are automatically opted in and can opt out any time. Give it a year and see what you get after True Up.

PGE will continue to do the billing and you will see separate charges for distribution (PGE) and generation (3CE). Don't be confused by the term "generation" on your bill. It refers to the energy supplied by 3CE. You solar generation will show up Net as negative numbers in kWhrs on both the distribution and generation sections of your bills.
There are no hidden fees, but there is a charge known as PCIA (Power Charge Indifference Adjustment) which PGE charges on their portion of the bill. Even after that charge your cost and your benefits from solar should be better if you stay with 3CE. I have been with Sonoma Clean Energy for over 3 years and have no regrets.
PGE and the other utilities in California lobbied against the CCA legislation and my anti monopoly mindset led me to conclude tha CCAs must be good if monopolies are opposed.

As I mentioned in the other thread there are other benefits to staying in a CCA. I can elaborate in that thread. Glad your system is working. Hope you get to see system results soon.

[Lil12002]

One last thing. When SunPower comes out to complete your setup, make sure you ask SunPower to explain everything to you such that you understand all of your system components and how they work.

Also, have them explain to you how to access your SunPower account.

Sidebar: If you access your Sunpower PVS6 through a local IP address (i.e. 192.168.1.xx), realize that this address might change when you reboot your router. You could lock down your PVS6 IP address by using DHCP reserve through your router. Static IP would work but is not as easy to manage as DHCP reserve.

Good luck!

We bought a 5 KWH system from our builder. thats the second to last highest model, and its a 2000 sq ft home and its just me and my wife so we will be producing extra power daily... i WAS considering a power ball so i didnt get any power from the grid but we are producing so much power it will be pointless except for power outages which dont tend to last long around here...

[Lil12002]

One last thing. When SunPower comes out to complete your setup, make sure you ask SunPower to explain everything to you such that you understand all of your system components and how they work.

Also, have them explain to you how to access your SunPower account.

Sidebar: If you access your Sunpower PVS6 through a local IP address (i.e. 192.168.1.xx), realize that this address might change when you reboot your router. You could lock down your PVS6 IP address by using DHCP reserve through your router. Static IP would work but is not as easy to manage as DHCP reserve.

Good luck!

yea i think i'll wait for the tech to come out and do all the sun power account the router and modem stuff confuses me, im not really a tech person. Thanks a bunch for the help tho.