TOU rate calculator (SCE customers)

[josefontao]

So I’m in a grandfathered plan; TOU-d-a. SCE will be changing me sometime this year to one of their new crappy TOU plans (cause you know, they gotta make more money from us). The new TOU rates certainly look inefficient for those of us with solar panels and Electric Vehicles.

Does anyone have or know of a TOU plan calculator to find out what plan might be best to switch to? Where you insert your average usage and rates and it tells you what would be better for your particular use.

As a side note, with the gas being so cheap these days, it barely is better to have an EV over an ICE car. In my case by around 8 cents for a full charge. Crazy huh?

[Ampster]

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Does anyone have or know of a TOU plan calculator to find out what plan might be best to switch to? Where you insert your average usage and rates and it tells you what would be better for your particular use.

Some installers have models that can do hypothetical modeling. There are always the power company ones but they can only do estimates based on your history. They cannot do predictive models that would show how load shifting would work better on one rate vs the other. I once used an elaborate spreadsheet to do that kind of modeling but with added capacity and load shifting strategies I find I can just look at the rate differentials and rank the plans and then check my assumptions with a simpler model.

As a side note, with the gas being so cheap these days, it barely is better to have an EV over an ICE car. In my case by around 8 cents for a full charge. Crazy huh?

I have been driving EVs for 8 years and I forgot about the gas savings. The compelling things for me are the lower long term cost of ownership issues. Less maintenance, no oil changes, no waiting in lines at gas stations to get best price. Then there is the torque that allows me to merge into traffic more safely and the convenience of adaptive cruise control that makes driving in traffic jams less fatiguing.

[loungelizard]

So I’m in a grandfathered plan; TOU-d-a. SCE will be changing me sometime this year to one of their new crappy TOU plans (cause you know, they gotta make more money from us). The new TOU rates certainly look inefficient for those of us with solar panels and Electric Vehicles.

Does anyone have or know of a TOU plan calculator to find out what plan might be best to switch to? Where you insert your average usage and rates and it tells you what would be better for your particular use.

As a side note, with the gas being so cheap these days, it barely is better to have an EV over an ICE car. In my case by around 8 cents for a full charge. Crazy huh?

The games they play with these TOU rates and times reminds me of the old days of AT&T long distance and my parents saying, "Don't you dare call New York until after 5PM. It would better if you waited until 9PM." They controlled the times and rates. Thankfully, companies like MCI stepped in and offered alternatives and then cellular disrupted the entire market.

My hope is that the battery technology will get better and less expensive over time.

[Ampster]

The games they play with these TOU rates and times reminds me of the old days of AT&T long distance and my parents saying, "Don't you dare call New York until after 5PM. It would better if you waited until 9PM." They controlled the times and rates. Thankfully, companies like MCI stepped in and offered alternatives and then cellular disrupted the entire market.

My hope is that the battery technology will get better and less expensive over time.

Let us hope. I would not want to own stock in a utility. I think there will continue to be disruption like we saw with long distance rates. I don't think it will be wireless but I do think it will be distributed and not as centralized.

[FFE]

You should not have to worry about it if you received your PTO five years ago. Maybe I am missing something.

I found this on the CPUC website:

San Diego Gas & Electric: June 29, 2016
Pacific Gas & Electric: December 15, 2016
Southern California Edison: July 1, 2017

Customer-generators that interconnected their systems to the grid prior to these dates were grandfathered into the former NEM tariff, pursuant to Decision D 14-03-041. These customer-generators are allowed to remain on the former tariff for 20 years from the date they interconnected, or they are permitted to switch to the current NEM tariff. The former NEM tariff is sometimes referred to as "NEM 1.0", and the current NEM tariff as "NEM 2.0" or "NEM Successor Tariff."

[J.P.M.]

So I’m in a grandfathered plan; TOU-d-a. SCE will be changing me sometime this year to one of their new crappy TOU plans (cause you know, they gotta make more money from us). The new TOU rates certainly look inefficient for those of us with solar panels and Electric Vehicles.

Does anyone have or know of a TOU plan calculator to find out what plan might be best to switch to? Where you insert your average usage and rates and it tells you what would be better for your particular use.

As a side note, with the gas being so cheap these days, it barely is better to have an EV over an ICE car. In my case by around 8 cents for a full charge. Crazy huh?

I know of several outfits and individuals that claim to have such info. The one's I've looked beginning about 8 years and continuing to this day are of varying accuracy and usefulness. After looking around for a couple of years, I decided the old adage: "If you want something done right, do it yourself" fit the description of the situation the best.

Other recent threads, and a lot more threads and posts around here in the past have talked a lot about calcing and comparing rates and "what it " scenarios. I've got a lot of stuff I've done with spreadsheets that seems to be able to match $$ values of most bills from SDG & E users who've shared their bills and array outputs with me. Other's here and elsewhere who much more spreadsheet savvy than I have done similar things.

You might see a recent thread "6kW system in Agora Hills" where poster gvl reported that SCE tentatively told him if he was NEM 1.0 and grandfathered, that he could go back to strictly tiered rates.

Also, and in spite of what they (SCE) may try to get you to infer with all the B.S. wording, you do have choices, and one of them may well be staying on strictly tiered rates as FFE noted in a post to this thread last night.

I'd still be cautious however.

SDG & E (and note, NOT SCE) told me just after NEM 2.0 became the new law of the land (using what looks like some convoluted logic on the interpreted consequences of some of the details of the quote from the CPUC that FFE included in his most recent post) that if I get off of tiered rates - which I'm "allowed" to do, and try a different rate that is one of the rates used and allowed under NEM 2.0, and I find the new rates sucks, I can go back to my former rate - PROVIDED that former rate is one of the rates recognized by the new NEM 2.0. The rub: While I can't be kicked off NEM 1.0 by the POCO for up to 20 yrs. after PTO, and I'm "permitted to switch to the current NEM tariff", (NEM 2.0) but if I do so, I can't go back to NEM 1.0 - and for me and SDG & E anyway, because the tiered rate I'm on (Sch "DR") is not a rate that's allowed to NEM 2.0 users, I can't go/get back to strictly tiered rates. So, I'd be sticking one up my own butt with no way to get it out.

As I'm staying on NEM 1.0 and tiered rates (and, BTW, no NBC), I've not revisited the issue w/ SDG & E and maybe things have been reinterpreted. Take it FWIW,

[Ampster]

You should not have to worry about it if you received your PTO five years ago. Maybe I am missing something.

I found this on the CPUC website:

Customer-generators that interconnected their systems to the grid prior to these dates were grandfathered into the former NEM tariff, .......

That tariff is just part of the method they use to calculate bills. It doesn't guaranty they cannot change the actual rates or the time periods for those rates. It just grandfathers that particular NEM 1.0 concept. Newer installations are under NEM 2.0

[FFE]

I think I am making some assumptions. I understood the request from the OP to be along the lines of wanting to compare TOU PRIME, TOU 4-9 and TOU 5-8 to figure out the best plan to switch to and is currently on TOU-A. My understanding is that NEM 1.0 customers can stay on TOU-A for twenty years and are not forced to switch. I also understand that the cost per kWh will continue to change. I was also under the impression that the times for peak, off peak and super off peak will not change for TOU-A. Of course nothing is stopping SCE from only varying the different rates by a few cents,which would basically be a flat rate plan, except the CPUC. I am coming up on 5 years and have not received any communication about selecting a new plan.

[Ampster]

I think I am making some assumptions. ........

I make the assumption that over time rate changes and time period changes will erode the economics. Whether that is a one year or five year scenerio does not matter to me in the long run because my strategy is long term. That is why my energy consumption system was designed to evolve to adapt to those changes. I view that as a financial hedging strategy to reduce costs.
I use the term "energy consumption system" to describe not just my electrical consumption. I have eliminated the consumption of gasoline and reduced the consumption of natural gas. With more investment I may be able to reduce my net import of grid power but economics will drive that decision.

[FFE]

Let me try something different. Question for the person that started this topic: Did you receive communication from SCE about being forced to switch plans? If so, what form of communication? If possible, please screenshot or take a pic and post it.

To anyone that received their PTO more than five years ago with SCE: Were you forced to change plans? Did your times for peak periods change?

[josefontao]

I have not been notified yet that I must change my plan. I only read it on their website that the plan will be changed late 2020.

This is SCE's own calculator if I was to change plans. This is ridiculous!!! Talk about a rate hike!
scebillincrease.png


And for all plans it says this may not be the right option for you. Yeah no kidding.

[J.P.M.]

I have not been notified yet that I must change my plan. I only read it on their website that the plan will be changed late 2020.

This is SCE's own calculator if I was to change plans. This is ridiculous!!! Talk about a rate hike!
scebillincrease.png

And for all plans it says this may not be the right option for you. Yeah no kidding.

Q.E.D. to my opinion on the benefit of staying on tiered rates - at least for some users.

As others have written, for folks reading this who are on NEM 1.0 and tiered rates, and with SCE, you still have tiered rates available.

As others have written but NEM 1.0 users w/SCE get siimilar B.S. that TALKS AS IF, AND APPARENTLY TRIES TO GET USERS TO INFER, AND SO TO BELIEVE THAT TIERED RATES ARE ENDING FOR THEM. THEY ARE NOT ENDING FOR NEM 1.0 USERS STILL ON TIERED RATES.

That the rate plan(S) will change late 2020 is left dangling in a "W.T.F does that mean" kind of way. If you assume (infer) that means you'll be forced off tiered rates, they will have succeeded without violating any laws dealing with veracity.
Read the fine print/call them. Caveat Emptor. Get educated. Think cynically. KNOW the facts.

That POCO B.S. is kind of like the situation where the lawyer asks the witness why the witness ran the stop sign just before the accident happened when in reality there was never a stop sign to begin with.

[Ampster]

I have not been notified yet that I must change my plan. I only read it on their website that the plan will be changed late 2020.
........

I don't remember if you also drive and EV but if you do and for you or the OP there has been a lot of informed discussion about this transition on the Tesla Motors Club Forum. I would post a link but I just had another post delayed or unapproved because it had a link to Home Depot.

[FFE]

I have not been notified yet that I must change my plan. I only read it on their website that the plan will be changed late 2020.

Please let us know where you found this on their website. I found this on their website which I read as anyone on TOU-D-A can stay on it. It is closed for enrollment only.

F7A3335D-E5CD-447A-B8B0-D82F684CF8EF.jpeg

[josefontao]

Here is the blurb from their website