Trouble interpreting enphase energy graphs

[Mike90250]

If you can read your Grid Supplier Consumption meter, you can tell if you are exporting. Just make sure most of your loads are switched off around noon, and take a couple readings half an hour apart. If your system is exporting, your Utility meter should be decrementing.
Your utility website should have information about how to read your meter. This should not be hard.

[ghulley]

If you can read your Grid Supplier Consumption meter, you can tell if you are exporting. Just make sure most of your loads are switched off around noon, and take a couple readings half an hour apart. If your system is exporting, your Utility meter should be decrementing.
Your utility website should have information about how to read your meter. This should not be hard.

I've never seen the meter decrement even under minimal load during the day, so I don't think I am exporting. All I can think is that the CT's are wired incorrectly and reporting erroneous data.

[ghulley]

I agree that with grid zero export one would expect to see consumption driving production and the mirror phenomena would be the result which is observed. I may have seen a sine wave that was just a coincidence. The consumption pattern may have resembled that.

Testing with a separate meter and adjusting loads could be more conclusive.
Originally the OP posted a chart dated April 24, 2020 which showed 40 kWhrs of consumption. I remember he said that for part of that time he was running a hot tub. My question to @ghulley is what are your usual daily loads? Do they match the typical consumption readings in kWhrs that you have been getting from Enphase? That might shed some light on this hypothesis until you get a chance to actually measure the loads on site.

I have contacted a local electrician who is going to help me measure loads on site to see what is going on.

So I just got my latest electricity bill. Last year without solar installed I used ~350 kWh for the month of May. This May (with less usage of cabin due to COVID) my bill went up to ~750 kWh with the solar installed. Something is clearly wrong. It almost seems I am actually paying for the solar produced!

If the solar contractor remains non-responsive, and this continues, I'm thinking about reporting the company to the state licensing board.

[Ampster]

I have contacted a local electrician who is going to help me measure loads on site to see what is going on.

So I just got my latest electricity bill. Last year without solar installed I used ~350 kWh for the month of May. This May (with less usage of cabin due to COVID) my bill went up to ~750 kWh with the solar installed. Something is clearly wrong. It almost seems I am actually paying for the solar produced!

If the solar contractor remains non-responsive, and this continues, I'm thinking about reporting the company to the state licensing board.

I think it is worth a call to your utility. Normally a spinning disc type of meter will go backwards cumulatively and that is why most utilities put in smart meters. Is the amount you generated close to the amount of your bill?

Maybe they can clarify how their meter would account for production that is exported. If that is the case then you have a stronger case with your contractor to fix it because there are actual damages that can be quantified. That would make your case with the licensing board and you could go after his bond for the damages.

[ghulley]

I think it is worth a call to your utility. Normally a spinning disc type of meter will go backwards cumulatively and that is why most utilities put in smart meters. Is the amount you generated close to the amount of your bill?

Maybe they can clarify how their meter would account for production that is exported. If that is the case then you have a stronger case with your contractor to fix it because there are actual damages that can be quantified. That would make your case with the licensing board and you could go after his bond for the damages.

Thanks, yes I'm calling the utility tomorrow to ask how their metering works. I just looked at my energy summary for the month of April and indeed the amount I generated is very close to the amount indicated on the bill, and the amount consumed as indicated on Enlighten is pretty much exactly the same as the bill within room for error. So my generation has been counted for consumption basically.

I finally have convinced the solar contractor to go over tomorrow and get on the phone with enphase to figure out what is wired incorrectly. It astounds me that someone supposedly an expert in this field and experience with installing Enphase monitoring systems is not able to figure out from the energy production/consumption graphs that there is something wrong. It's only when I showed him the bill that he was inclined to believe me.

[Mike90250]

When the utility does not reprogram the smart meter to account for solar production, it counts energy sent to the grid, as energy you consumed. Sort of a poison pill for guerrilla solar installs.

[ghulley]

If you can read your Grid Supplier Consumption meter, you can tell if you are exporting. Just make sure most of your loads are switched off around noon, and take a couple readings half an hour apart. If your system is exporting, your Utility meter should be decrementing.
Your utility website should have information about how to read your meter. This should not be hard.

Mike, I took your advice and made some meter measurements this morning. It turns out you were all correct, the system seems to be exporting and has been counting as energy usage on my bill. This is what I found:

At 10:00 I turned off all loads in the house (spa, fridge etc), then took a meter reading.
At 10:30 the meter had increased by 2 kWh, and the Enlighten app showed a production of exactly 2 kWh over the same 30min period.
At 10:30 I turned off the solar, and waited another 1/2 hour.
at 11:00 I took another meter reading and it had not moved!

So clearly my system is producing at max capacity and all the excess is simply being exported.

I called the electric company and indeed the meter installed is unidirectional, so any power run through it would be clocked as usage.

This is where the fun starts. I showed this to my contractor but he still insists the install is correct and he has apparently been on the phone with Enphase techs to verify the install is correct. He claims 10 other homes with similar installs have no problem and insists there is a meter problem, and is trying to set up an electrical company tech to check the meter.

I'm skeptical its a meter issue to be honest. If the system is producing at max capacity the energy has to go somewhere? If not used by the house then exported, am I right? As I understand in a net-zero export system the inverters should be only supplying enough energy to meet the demand of the household, that doesn't seem to be how this system is working. I've attached a graph of today's energy (blue=production, orange=consumption,gray=import). You can clearly see consumption mirroring production until I switched off the solar at 10:30am. So am pretty much at my witts end here, if the electric company can't find anything wrong then I have a dud system.

[ghulley]

When the utility does not reprogram the smart meter to account for solar production, it counts energy sent to the grid, as energy you consumed. Sort of a poison pill for guerrilla solar installs.

Some history on usage from my electric bill and production for April-May:

April 9 - May 11 2018: 300 kWh
April 9 - May 10 2019: 382 kWh
April 9 - May 11 2020: 735 kWh (610 kWh produced from solar)

With 2020 being the quietest month I've had the cabin due to COVID, I can't believe how my usage would have doubled, with solar installed!

[Ampster]

@ghulley
Any news on how your contractor resolved this? Another thread from a Solaredge user has a similar issue. We are wondering if the C19 has spread to installers with this odd side effect?

[ghulley]

@ghulley
Any news on how your contractor resolved this? Another thread from a Solaredge user has a similar issue. We are wondering if the C19 has spread to installers with this odd side effect?

The contractor never fixed the problem. It was a fraudulent install. The contractor claimed it was a net zero export system but there was no mechanism installed (e.g. either via smart inverters or metering device) to limit production to match the consumptive load and ensure zero export. The system simply produced at maximum capacity and exported all excess energy to the grid, out of compliance with my electrical company in Big Bear (BVES).

At the moment the system is turned off until BVES start up their net metering program again this summer.

[Ampster]

The contractor never fixed the problem. It was a fraudulent install. The contractor claimed it was a net zero export system but there was no mechanism installed .........

I mentioned in another thread that you should bring an action with the state license board and go after his bond. Based on the facts you have damages on your electric billings alone.

However the facts also appear to be that he did install the Envoy, and the consumption CTs based on the screens that you displayed. I believe he installed the CTs wrong and/or did not program the Envoy correctly. If you can find another Enphase installer who is knowledgeable it could be an easy fix. The hardest part will be finding an installer willing to make the trek up the mountain to look.

That may be moot as far as your bills are concerned since you can go on net metering this summer. However you may want to get the consumption readings corrected by rearranging the CTs. You did pay for consumption metering and the reporting that goes with it. Good luck.

[ghulley]

I mentioned in another thread that you should bring an action with the state license board and go after his bond. Based on the facts you have damages on your electric billings alone.

However the facts also appear to be that he did install the Envoy, and the consumption CTs based on the screens that you displayed. I believe he installed the CTs wrong and/or did not program the Envoy correctly. If you can find another Enphase installer who is knowledgeable it could be an easy fix. The hardest part will be finding an installer willing to make the trek up the mountain to look.

That may be moot as far as your bills are concerned since you can go on net metering this summer. However you may want to get the consumption readings corrected by rearranging the CTs. You did pay for consumption metering and the reporting that goes with it. Good luck.

Update: I finally got this resolved. With my installer in denial and refusing to believe there was anything wrong the system, I ran another series of tests with all power to the house off and monitored the meter with the solar on and off. With solar on the system was exporting 2 kWh per 30minutes. With solar off there was no change.

As a last resort I threatened action with the CA state license board and airing a review with the local radio station (the station manager directly contacted the installer for a response), and only then did he jump into action! Contacted enphase again and after going through 3 different techs they finally found that the CT's were incorrectly set for net zero export. Unbelievable. Enphase support over the past 3 months has been absolutely abysmal. The system is now finally working correctly and the microinverters are only producing enough to match the home load, so there is no surplus energy to export.

Can anyone advise me on where the best place would be to write a review for the installer company? In this case it is Bear Mountain Solar Energy Inc. I would highly advise anyone thinking of installing solar in the San Bernardino county to stay well clear of them, they are a major red flag, especially the CEO Brett Seaman who has no idea what he is doing. He simply goes around installing systems as if its his hobby and has no idea how to interpret the consumption monitoring data.

thanks for all your help.

[Ampster]

Update: I finally got this resolved. ......

Can anyone advise me on where the best place would be to write a review for the installer company? ........

Don't expect anything from BBB. if there is a Nextdoor neighborhood or Facebook page, those seem to get a lot of readers.
I am glad this got resolved. Are you going after the contractors license bond for the damages? Or small claims?

[RichardCullip]

Can anyone advise me on where the best place would be to write a review for the installer company? In this case it is Bear Mountain Solar Energy Inc. I would highly advise anyone thinking of installing solar in the San Bernardino county to stay well clear of them, they are a major red flag, especially the CEO Brett Seaman who has no idea what he is doing. He simply goes around installing systems as if its his hobby and has no idea how to interpret the consumption monitoring data.

thanks for all your help.

Out of curiosity I just took a peak at their reviews on Yelp. The reviews are either glowing 5 star reviews or abysmal 1 star reviews. Nothing in between. The 1 star reviews mirror the problems you had with them.

[ghulley]

Don't expect anything from BBB. if there is a Nextdoor neighborhood or Facebook page, those seem to get a lot of readers.
I am glad this got resolved. Are you going after the contractors license bond for the damages? Or small claims?

I'm not sure if its worth the effort? To keep the radio station quiet that was about to run an on-the-air 'business review' of Bear Mountain Solar the CEO told the station that he had put a check in the mail for me to cover my bills over the March-May period. 2 weeks later and I have not received anything, so that was a lie to keep the station quiet.

I have submitted a review on Yelp and the station is going to air the review this week.