Trouble interpreting enphase energy graphs

[ghulley]

Update: Enphase specialist said that consumption mirroring production is a sign of CT's installed incorrectly. Now if I can only convince my contractor of that, and to fix the problem...

[Ampster]

Update: Enphase specialist said that consumption mirroring production is a sign of CT's installed incorrectly. Now if I can only convince my contractor of that, and to fix the problem...

That is good input from Enphase. Hopefully your installer will see the light and fix it. The good news is none of the Enphase CTs will influence the actual results. However until your power company starts Net Metering your generation won't show up on your bills. If you have online access you will only see daytime production as zero consumption during much of the day unless you turn on a load or loads that exceed solar production.

In the meantime you won't get much value from the consumption part of your Envoy. You could always turn off that portion of the graph and enjoy the production graphs until the consumption gets fixed.

[ghulley]

That is good input from Enphase. Hopefully your installer will see the light and fix it. The good news is none of the Enphase CTs will influence the actual results. However until your power company starts Net Metering your generation won't show up on your bills. If you have online access you will only see daytime production as zero consumption during much of the day unless you turn on a load or loads that exceed solar production.

In the meantime you won't get much value from the consumption part of your Envoy. You could always turn off that portion of the graph and enjoy the production graphs until the consumption gets fixed.

Well attached is an example from last weekend when I turned on a load around 11 am (spa heating). According to the enlighten tutorials, solid bars below the line (orange) indicate net negative energy (more consumed than produced), while solid bars above in blue should indicate net positive energy (more produced than consumed). I don't see any net positive throughout the entire day, even when loads were small from 8-11 am which tells me none of the energy produced is actually being used in consumption. Maybe its just the CT's are not installed correctly, no idea.

[Ampster]

Your bill will be computed on what actually happens not what the Enphase CTs are telling your Envoy. As I mentioned earlier the only thing that might not happen until your utility turns on their accounting toggle, is that you might not get any credit for generation until that happens. Check you house meter from one day to the next or go online if they offer online viewing of your usage history on a daily basis.

[SunEagle]

I don't know if this was discussed or not but CT's have a polarity. They usually have an arrow on them which needs to be pointed to the Load. If it is swapped it will record negative watts.

[ghulley]

I don't know if this was discussed or not but CT's have a polarity. They usually have an arrow on them which needs to be pointed to the Load. If it is swapped it will record negative watts.

Thanks, I just pointed that out to the contractor, and he said the polarity is correct from what he remembers, but will take a pic and double-check.

[ghulley]

Your bill will be computed on what actually happens not what the Enphase CTs are telling your Envoy. As I mentioned earlier the only thing that might not happen until your utility turns on their accounting toggle, is that you might not get any credit for generation until that happens. Check you house meter from one day to the next or go online if they offer online viewing of your usage history on a daily basis.

Yea and that's fine, I'm not too concerned about the $ savings at this point, more that an investment in a $22K system is actually working as it should. And its pretty disappointing tbh that the energy data from Enlighten makes absolutely no sense. The contractor is going in this week and will speak with an Enphase specialist and do a load test and take some real time readings.

I appreciate all the responses and advice, it's been a good learning experience.

[scrambler]

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/filedata/fetch?id=414081

May be I misunderstand, but if I look at your 4/26 graph, your Consumption in orange is clearly higher than your production in Blue between 37 and 49, and so naturally, you are importing the difference in yellow during that period

Basically, the sum of the Blue curve (production) and yellow curve (import) matches the consumption in orange.

[Ampster]

May be I misunderstand, but if I look at your 4/26 graph,.............

It is always good to have another set of eyes to test the assumptions made so far.

I am not sure which graph you are referring to, but some of the graphs seem to indicate to me that consumption was mirroring production. Based on that, I reached the conclusion that the consumption CT was installed or configured wrong. The original poster did talk to an Enphase support person but I am not clear if the support person actually looked at the data or was responding to the comment that consumption was mirroring production.

I would have expected to see some period where production was greater than consumption if the CTs were connected or configured correctly. Take a look at the chart the OP attached to post #15 and tell us if you see the same pattern of consumption mirroring production?

[scrambler]

It is always good to have another set of eyes to test the assumptions made so far.

I am not sure which graph you are referring to, but some of the graphs seem to indicate to me that consumption was mirroring production. Based on that, I reached the conclusion that the consumption CT was installed or configured wrong. The original poster did talk to an Enphase support person but I am not clear if the support person actually looked at the data or was responding to the comment that consumption was mirroring production.

I would have expected to see some period where production was greater than consumption if the CTs were connected or configured correctly. Take a look at the chart the OP attached to post #15 and tell us if you see the same pattern of consumption mirroring production?

I added the link from his post at the end of page one.
Here it is again for 4/26

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/filedata/fetch?id=414081

[ghulley]

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/filedata/fetch?id=414081

May be I misunderstand, but if I look at your 4/26 graph, your Consumption in orange is clearly higher than your production in Blue between 37 and 49, and so naturally, you are importing the difference in yellow during that period

Basically, the sum of the Blue curve (production) and yellow curve (import) matches the consumption in orange.

The consumption is artificially higher because its being calculated by the CT's for some reason as 'consumption = total production + import', which is incorrect. e.g. during minimal load it basically mirrors the production (see attached from enlighten summary for 04/26). And there is no net positive energy during the day indicating that none of the energy produced is being used for the demand (orange solid bars all below line). If indeed the production was greater than consumption you should be seeing solid blue bars above the line.

See the explanation here from enphase: https://enphase.com/en-us/support/what-net-energy

[Ampster]

I added the link from his post at the end of page one.
Here it is again for 4/26

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/filedata/fetch?id=414081

Thanks. If you look at the way solar production ramps up and notches down at the edges in the same way as consumption that suggests mirroring to me. When a load came on at the middle of the day, consumption exceeded production by the same amount. I understand that is just a calculation in the software. It is however a data point that supports the hypothesis that the CTs are not connected correctly. Another possibility, although remote, is that the configuration has not been reset to the way the CTs are installed.

Also look at the other graph he posted to the right and the correlation between consumption and production seems to be more than a coincidence. If there is another explanation it would be helpful since he is meeting with the contractor over the weekend. The more opinions he can leverage to find a solution, the better.

[scrambler]

Thanks. If you look at the way solar production ramps up and notches down at the edges in the same way as consumption that suggests mirroring to me. When a load came on at the middle of the day, consumption exceeded production by the same amount. I understand that is just a calculation in the software. It is however a data point that supports the hypothesis that the CTs are not connected correctly. Another possibility, although remote, is that the configuration has not been reset to the way the CTs are installed.

Also look at the other graph he posted to the right and the correlation between consumption and production seems to be more than a coincidence. If there is another explanation it would be helpful since he is meeting with the contractor over the weekend. The more opinions he can leverage to find a solution, the better.

I see what you mean.
The fact there is no export ever (grey line) does indicate there is a problem in the way the CTs are connected.
Similar to the test that was already suggested, the OP could shutdown ALL house consumption during production hours and see if the graph shows export of all the production to grid or if it shows house consumption instead.
If the later, then you know house consumption is not being measured properly.

Usually, the values that are recorded are:
The production P (from the inverter)
The grid Import or export: G (import = +; export = -) from CTs on the Grid input lines

From there the system can calculate house consumption H = P + G

ie:
P = 5kW ; G = -2kW (export) => H = 5-2 = 3kW consumption
P = 5kW ; G= 1kW (import) => H = 5+1 = 6 kW consumption

So knowing how the panel and inverter is wired and where the CTs have been placed as well as their orientation towards the grid is the way to be sure about CTs location
There is also the possibility of bad CTs.

Another possible test if the OP has a Multimeter and an Amp measuring clamp, is to make current measurement himself on the grid Input lines where the CTs are and compare with the reported data.

From the weired match between the production and consumption, it looks like the CTs are only reporting Import and not Export.

[ghulley]

I see what you mean.
The fact there is no export ever (grey line) does indicate there is a problem in the way the CTs are connected.
Similar to the test that was already suggested, the OP could shutdown ALL house consumption during production hours and see if the graph shows export of all the production to grid or if it shows house consumption instead.
If the later, then you know house consumption is not being measured properly.

I'm wondering if the consumption mirroring production is stemming from a device that was installed that ensures net zero export. Bear valley electric is only starting up their net metering program again this summer, so we had to comply with zero net export for now. Nevertheless I'm not sure how that would affect the odd consumption outputs.

[Ampster]

I'm wondering if the consumption mirroring production is stemming from a device that was installed that ensures net zero export. Bear valley electric is only starting up their net metering program again this summer, so we had to comply with zero net export for now. Nevertheless I'm not sure how that would affect the odd consumption outputs.

That is a good question. That hypothesis would then assume production was following your load. I did some research and discovered some reference that some Enphase IQ microinverters can be configured for zero export. I previously said that I did not see that as an option on my system but it appears that capability is available for inverters in the Hawaiian market. I am under the impression you are in California but your utility could enforce that rule.

If your house meter is working and easy to observe you could take readings as your solar day evolves and as you switch loads on and off. In that case you could observe production following your load. It would look like mirroring but it would NOT likely have a sine curve like the usual generation curves my system shows as the sun transits the sky.
In the meantime, Is there any way that Bear Valley Electric can enlighten this discussion. Do they have the ability to read your meter remotely and can they make that accessible to you or give you some kind of summary?