Inverter Location?

[hardwired]

Utility Service meter is on the north side of the home. 200A main panel with a sub panel for a garage addition.

Dont really like the idea of the Inverter exposed to the elements and vandals. North side is damp with moss on the grass and green crap continuously a problem on the siding there. Inside the room next the the panel (which is "hidden" behind a cabinet door) would look out of place in the living room and generate heat and possibly noise/buzz - a no go with the wife.

Are there any issues with putting the Inverter 50 feet away in the garage? It's an AC run thru the lower level with easy access in the tile ceiling. Is a sub panel required in the garage with a Line Side connection at the utility meter disconnect switch ?

Installer wants to keep it outside for some reason (and sights a costly sub panel is required). But we have the concerns above and 3 long conduit DC runs across the roof which basically have to wrap around the back and around a fireplace chimney. Can't run it all the way thru the attic either as half isn't accessible with cathedral ceilings. The majority of the panels would be on or adjacent to the garage. It just makes sense to run the DC conduit down the side into the garage.

Is there a real problem with the location?

[Mike90250]

I'd think that an outdoor rated enclosure, with protection of some sort like an awning, would be fine. It will be a bit warm, so should be drier and not grow moss.

[PugPower]

I have my inverter mounted outside on a North facing wall under a awning. No problems. For emergency purposes I think a inverter is better outside, for the inverter itself it's probably better inside sheltered from the elements. My installer preferred to mount outside.

[J.P.M.]

To my experience, installers in general, seem to prefer outside installations. My guess is that usually, but not always, makes their job easier.

Some jurisdictions may require outside mounting for emergency access but I'm not aware of any.

As for the excess heat kicked off by an inverter, a recently running car w/an ICE, particularly the engine, parked in a closed garage probably puts more heat into that garage than what amounts to something like the 3% or less of an arrays' output that gets turned into waste heat by the inverter's inefficiency.

Compared to an insulated wall of the same size, most garage doors usually turn that portion of the garage boundary into a heat sieve anyway.

As for standby inverter losses/waste heat, and by way of some loose comparison and depending on activity level, a human adult kicks off something link ~ 50 -100 W of waste heat. Per the data sheet, my inverter's standby losses are about 5 W. Your results will vary.

As for noise, seems to me cheap inverters will tend to make more noise. Mount it on an outside wall if possible and/or pedestal mount it on the garage floor to prevent most /all vibration from being transmitted through/along a wall.

My inverter seems pretty quiet just mounted on an outside wall in the garage interior. Using a SPL meter, I can't detect that it adds anything to background noise levels until the meter gets w/in ~ 10 cm or so of the inverter, and then it only adds maybe 3 Dba or so to the background noise levels, and it's pretty quiet around here.

Just opinion here, but mechanical/electronic stuff I've owned always seems to last longer if I keep it in a (semi)controlled environment.

[JSchnee21]

Hi @hardwired!

Let's take a step back. How big is your array going to be? Which inverter? Are you going with a load side breaker or a line side tap?

If your inverter is too far from your main panel, and your PoCo line voltage runs fairly high, you can have issues with the inverter shutting off due to localized increases in line voltage. This is fairly rare, but it can happen.

Running longer lengths of high voltage DC is generally preferred and cheaper (smaller gauge wire).

What part of the country do you live in? Most folks have inverters installed outside without issue. Newer models (assuming Solar Edge here) have no fans so not much to get clogged, etc.

Disconnects need to be outside, but the inverter usually does not. Similarly, most states require rapid shutdown so you'll most likely be looking at a SolarEdge or Enphase solution -- though there are a few other minor players.

Doubtful your AHJ will approve back feeding the sub panel in the garage, but you / your installer can ask. There are a few folks here on the board with the newer Solar Edge SetApp inverters installed in the garage / basement with little or no hum or heat. These modern inverters are 97-99% efficient.

[PugPower]

I have one of the newer SolarEdge HD-Wave SE6000H-US inverters without the LCD. I does not have a fan, but instead has a huge heat sink. I can not detect any noise except for some clicking when it wakes up or goes to sleep. The heat sink gets pretty hot when it's operating during hot days. I once measured it over 100 degrees.

The reason my installer wanted to mount it outside is because they claimed there was not enough air movement in my garage and the inverter could overheat if ambient temps got too high. There reasoning was since there is no fan on the unit, it requires good air-flow. I will admit that my garage could use more air vents.

[DrLumen]

IMS, they mounted the inverter outside near the meter due to cost. The city required a separate outdoor disconnect for the solar array and the SE had the one that was included at the bottom. Since it is near the meter another disconnect would not be needed.

As to temps, I found there were times that the SE7600 hit 148F. Outdoor ambient on that day was 111F. The LCD has also crapped out likely to being froze. I need to report it for warranty repair.

[J.P.M.]

I have one of the newer SolarEdge HD-Wave SE6000H-US inverters without the LCD. I does not have a fan, but instead has a huge heat sink. I can not detect any noise except for some clicking when it wakes up or goes to sleep. The heat sink gets pretty hot when it's operating during hot days. I once measured it over 100 degrees.

The reason my installer wanted to mount it outside is because they claimed there was not enough air movement in my garage and the inverter could overheat if ambient temps got too high. There reasoning was since there is no fan on the unit, it requires good air-flow. I will admit that my garage could use more air vents.

If it does not have a fan, then the design assumes that all air movement passed through, over or around a cooling section of a heat producing piece of equipment (and so probably but not necessarily one with cooling fins) is due to natural (gravity) convection with no assist from wind assumed in the design, that is, no "forced" air circulation of the type that is not gravity induced by virtue of thermally induced air density differences.

I bet if you look at the manual for the inverter, it'll give the max. allowable ambient operating temp., and that temp. will be in excess of ~ 50 C or so.

I'd also wager it also has some guidance about placement with reference to air circulation in an enclosed space such as a garage (Hmmm...?).

That's not to say free forced convection from wind is a bad thing (but, believe it or not, it may always be desirable either - particularly for natural convection cooling designs), but if forced convection from wind was necessary for proper operation of the inverter, the mfg. would be out on a limb whenever the unit failed because of stagnant or variable wind conditions, or if ever placed in an enclosed area.

If the design cannot be done without forced convection such that it requires wind for cooling, at that point it's easier from a design standpoint and easier from a liability standpoint to add a fan and make it a forced convection design with a much more reliable fan than a hope for unreliable wind.

If you've correctly related what the installer told you, the installer has told you a bunch of B.S.

The unit does most likely require "good" air flow, but that "good" criteria most usually refers to a need for air flow passages that do not obstruct, restrict or block free air movement or access by tight/closed airways or passages. Unless the application is something like a large induced draft cooling tower, or a chimney or such like, it does not, unless specifically stated, mean free access to wind or other non gravity induced air movement.

I spent a good part of an engineering career as a P.E. designing all sorts of heat transfer equipment for power and process applications. Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[blueman2]

My inverter, a SolarEdge SE5000, is mounted in my garage, about 50 feet away from main circuit box. I decided to run a sub-panel to my garage, and am backfeeding the sub-panel. Using 6AWG from main circuit box for 50A sub panel service. I liked having the inverter in the garage for protection. City of Saratoga, California bought off on all of it. Been running about 3 months now.

[hardwired]

SE HD Wave 10 or 11kw with a large array 12-15kw. I want the ability to slave a 2nd smaller Inverter to increase the capacity in the future. Will be using Line Side Tap and the disconnect will be outside near the meter as required.

the Inverters in the garage would be on the opposite wall of the existing subpanel so I already have a long run across the house.

isn't it just one AC run 100Ax240 to support 24kw maximum? No sub panel for an Inverter pair just a box to interconnect the two, right? Maybe it's the heavy gauge wire pull??

[hardwired]

If your inverter is too far from your main panel, and your PoCo line voltage runs fairly high, you can have issues with the inverter shutting off due to localized increases in line voltage. This is fairly rare, but it can happen.

Running longer lengths of high voltage DC is generally preferred and cheaper (smaller gauge wire).

What part of the country do you live in? Most folks have inverters installed outside without issue. Newer models (assuming Solar Edge here) have no fans so not much to get clogged, etc.

Disconnects need to be outside, but the inverter usually does not. Similarly, most states require rapid shutdown so you'll most likely be looking at a SolarEdge or Enphase solution -- though there are a few other minor players.

Thinking about biting the bullet and installing the 2nd slave Solaredge Inverter from the get go in the garage, otherwise I probably won't have it ready. No backfeeding breaker panels, direct line Side tap thru a disconect at the meter.

The Solaredge app note says to keep the voltage drop to less than 1% to avoid the high line voltage shutdown mentioned above. The two Inverter max currents are 50A and 26A. They accept down to 4AWG wire on the terminals. 4AWG drop was just over 1% assuming 50meters (should be shorter than this)

Should I run 2AWG Copper? How expensive is it and is there a cable bundle I can use or needs to be pulled ther conduit?

I shouldn't need a subpanel, just a box with wiring terminals to tie the 4AWG from the inverters to the 2AWG long run to the disconnect. What do you think?

[JSchnee21]

Collecting some current line voltage data would be useful. I would go with a single 11.4kW and over subscribe it (depending on your orientations, inclinations, # of roof faces, etc.) Or a pair of 7600's. Most folks in CA have issues getting their PoCo's to approve line side taps for some reason (not sure why -- they are very common in NJ where I live. I have one myself). Have you run any PV production estimates (PVWatts or SE Site Designer?) How does your expected production compare to your current consumption? Many PoCo's have limits for residential either 95-105% of current consumption, or fixed limits e.g. 10kW, 15kW, over which liability assurance or commercial generator agreements are often necessary.

Many new folks on the board often ask about future upgrades and add ons. But given all of the paperwork, applications, inspections, engineering drawings, etc. that are required such upgrades after the fact are pretty rare.

Definitely run copper (not Al). For a 50' length @ 120V @ 76 amps 3 AWG has a 1.49% drop, 2 AWG has a 1.15% drop (recall that split phase 240V is not really 240V from the conductors perspective). Of course that's only during times of maximum production. But the bigger issue is that all of that current has to go somewhere. It either needs to be consumed by your loads, or it has to travel back to the pole to feed your neighbors or backfeed the step down transformer. In addition to cable length and gauge, a lot of resistance comes from the various terminations and taps. Ideally you'd use properly sided and torqued junction blocks for your taps and not clamp on splices.

Are you working with a reputable Solar installer in your area? Or is this DIY?

[hardwired]

Will be installed by a pro as required. I'm good with the output will be way under my usage at least to begin with. Will add more panels as funds allow in the future. But I think you are right, if the inverters aren't in and the AC capacity done up front it will be difficult and prohibitive later.

This guy shows two inverters and there is a breaker panel with two 30A breakers. I plan to run two different inverters, 10k and a 6k. The 10 and 11k support 3 strings and the 6/7k supports 2 strings.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5RElexjEFY4

Looks like a garage installation too

[hardwired]

God why is this so hard.

So the guy have been working with disappears for a week and I finally reach him and he was to get back to my proposal last Monday but never responds. I reach out to the owner which looks like a relative and he calls back andI update him on the job and resend the email message with the details. Running out of time on the local utility rebate program. Applications can take 8 weeks and the install has to be complete before it ends in May.

Sends me a contract to sign which is pretty much open ended 4line items on the system components and doesn't cover all the details on how we want it installed (rail system, sub panel, location, etc . I have them sketches and Solaredge designer layout mind you. Approximate dates where I have to meet scheduled payments. With penalties, but no commitment on the dates to the contractor. I Can lose 5k or more if it's not done in time.

Wants to handle the garage location with subpanel and conduit AC run as time and material.

Red flags are up on the 2 week communication delay. Seems like I just wasted a month. I don't want to give up on it but I can't go into it open ended and constrained with $$$ in jeapordy.