Beginner in Missouri - USA

[steve1040]

Hi All,
I'm so glad I found this site
Can anyone put me on the right track.
I'd like to add a grid connected solar system to my home.
I'm not sure what size I need and after talking with my local electric company I'm even more discouraged.

So here is what I know
My monthly average (12 months) usage is 1814
Power & Light said they pay .03 per kW hour

The Power & Light company said that what ever system I installed I should expect to get only 20% of the advertised output. (Because of the sunlight we get in this area)

He also said it would take about 25 years to break even because of the cost of the solar tech available.

Questions
Anyone in Missouri completed an install - If so what are your results?

Any turnkey systems that I can install with help from an electrician (My uncle)? What is the cost, where can I purchase it? Can I get a good system for around 3K or less

What are the specifics on the federal rebates (What do I need)
Any Federal or state aid available for installation

Thanks
Steve

[russ]

Hi Steve - Welcome to Solar Panel Talk!

1) Tax credits/subsidies/incentives there is a link on the forum page to a gov site that shows both state and federal - http://www.dsireusa.org/

2) Another link on the forum page is to PV Watts - a calculator from NREL to show what kind of an average output you can reasonably expect. This is based on long term data - generic for an area - local conditions or shading could reduce the amount generated. http://mapserve3.nrel.gov/PVWatts_Viewer/index.html

The guy at the utility company was blowing smoke about the 20%.

3 cents is not much but you do have the grid connect possibility which makes the system cheaper than a battery based system.

The cheapest PV you can ever hope to buy is in reducing your consumption - by far the most cost effective. Simple things like using energy efficient lamps, sealing a leaky house up, adding insulation if needed, when replacing an appliance consider the power consumption carefully - all help a lot.

As is you would be looking at something like an 18 kW DC system.

Russ

[Mike90250]

My monthly average (12 months) usage is 1814

What is your current cost per KWh ??

1814 / 31 days = about 60KWh per day That's pretty steep. To harvest enough to offset that in a 5 hour solar day (fixed array) would need about 14KW of panels installed, which is a LOT. If you figure turnkey install at $6 KW, that's $84,000.

You can install less, and shave the top off your bill, which might be useful, if you are using upper tier power at 30c KWh, and your baseline allotment is at 15c KWh.

But conservation is the first step. High efficiency air conditioners, ground source heat pump, insulation, weatherstripping, all that stuff first.

[Sunking]

So here is what I know
My monthly average (12 months) usage is 1814
Power & Light said they pay .03 per kW hour

That is all you really need to know. They pay you 3-cents/Kwh for the excess you generate and sell them, and you pay them I am guessing 12-cents/Kwh for what you buy. You would be a darn fool to install Solar even if I and your neighbors pick up half the expense to pay for your luxury. Both you and your neighbors would be screwed.

If they paid even money for Kwh, then only your neighbors and I get screwed while you laugh all the way to the bank on Obama free money.

So it sounds like Misery is doing things right by not screwing tax and rate payers, and you have to pay big bucks to save a penny at your expense, not mine.

[steve1040]

What is your current cost per KWh ??

1814 / 31 days = about 60KWh per day That's pretty steep. To harvest enough to offset that in a 5 hour solar day (fixed array) would need about 14KW of panels installed, which is a LOT. If you figure turnkey install at $6 KW, that's $84,000.

You can install less, and shave the top off your bill, which might be useful, if you are using upper tier power at 30c KWh, and your baseline allotment is at 15c KWh.

But conservation is the first step. High efficiency air conditioners, ground source heat pump, insulation, weatherstripping, all that stuff first.

Maybe my math is off.
I took my monthly usage for the last 12 months and averaged it

May 11 = 1,415
Apr 11 = 1,254
Mar 11 = 1,282
Feb 11 = 1,529
Jan 11 = 1,878
Dec 10 = 1,154
Nov 10 = 1,233
Oct 10 = 1,094
Sep 10 = 2,063
Aug 10 = 3,871
Jul 10 = 3,072
Jun 10= 1,917

[Sunking]

Maybe my math is off.
I took my monthly usage for the last 12 months and averaged it

May 11 = 1,415
Apr 11 = 1,254
Mar 11 = 1,282
Feb 11 = 1,529
Jan 11 = 1,878
Dec 10 = 1,154
Nov 10 = 1,233
Oct 10 = 1,094
Sep 10 = 2,063
Aug 10 = 3,871
Jul 10 = 3,072
Jun 10= 1,917

Sounds right, you are an energy HOG, you use more than twice the national average. You can afford it.

[steve1040]

Also - I never really looked at our usage until I started researching solar. WOW it is high

[raydias]

I am with you I didn't realize how much I was using until I started researching solar. I bought a power meter and went around and checked everything. but computers and kids tv on power strips so they get turned off when not in use, change light bulbs to CFL or LED. My garage is a kids game room and the builder put in 2 light strips with 2 32 watt florescent bulbs. evry time we had friends over and the kids would watch a movie or play air hokey the light was on at 1128 watts... replaced the strips with standard flush mount lights and 4 7.5 watt led's. I also installed an energy monitor at the power panel and watched the monitor as things came on and off.

making these simple changes has netted me $350 in savings since last aug/sept

I went from over 1000kwh on average a month to just 800 with more improvements to come. this summer will be the real test with the air conditioning. I used insulation foam to seal all light and electrical outlets along the exterior wall. in winter I felt a draft from the one at the front door. now i don't feel the heat either.

I took people advise on this forum and did the conserve option first. next step is to look at solar to get by bill down to PG&E first price tier.

[Sunking]

I took people advise on this forum and did the conserve option first. next step is to look at solar to get by bill down to PG&E first price tier.

Raydias his situation is not your situation and will not likely work. for him/her

• Being in Missouri he pays a lot less for electricity in the neighborhood of 8 to 9 cents/Kwh which is dirt cheap.
• His utility does not offer net metering, they will will only pay him wholesale price of 3-cents/Kwh for excess and credit.
• He likely has no state, local or power company incentives to pay for the system only federal.

It would be foolish to even think about solar, it would mean 300 to 500% increase in his electric bill and end up paying what you pay. No one in their right mind would do that.

He has only 1 real option: a major life style change. At 1800 Kwh/month with 9-cent Kwh most people would kill for a $175/month electric bill. A $50K loan @ 6% @ 10 years to replace around 75% of his electric usage would cost him $560/month plus another $50/month or so from his electric company.