Where's the rest of the cost?

[J.P.M.]

We get a lot of people who come on here and take that approach. The posts usually go like this:

"I saw a GREAT deal on panels and I spent all my money on them - 20KW! I have about $100 left, what else do I need?" They are then disheartened to hear that the panels won't even be the biggest cost for the project. They often go away very unhappy.

Stop buying stuff RIGHT NOW. Don't get a P800. Return the SE7600 even if it means paying restocking fees. Stop trying to "see if things will work." Get a copy of Solar for Dummies and read it. If you really want to buy stuff, buy a very small independent system (a panel, charge controller, small battery, small inverter) and experiment with that. You'll destroy the battery quickly - but learn a lot in the process.

You will likely end up with a smaller system than you are thinking about, using a string inverter.

OP: If you have an ounce of brains, read and internalize what Jeff is writing and what everyone here who's knowledgeable is screaming at you to do.

STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND GET INFORMED. !

[littleharbor]

QUOTE:
." Get a copy of Solar for Dummies and read it.



I think the OP has a problem with reading comprehension. Not so sure the book will help.

[motorcyclemikie]

You really need to hit the brakes. If you connect the p800 optimizers they will be considered used and will become worthless to you as you won't be able to return them. Why are you insisting on trying to force a square peg into a round hole? Do you really think your wild ideas are going to work even after you have been told over and over by all these very knowledgable people that they won't? What you are doing is wasting everybody's time here by just figuring that if is has the same brand name that it must be interchangeable.

This will be my last comment here so I'll say good luck with your experiment. I sure hope nobody gets hurt. if you are going to keep plugging stuff into other stuff to see what happens keep in mind, High voltage electricity can be deadly.

ET TOO BRUTE That's what forums are all about, sorry to upset everybody, if I did that it's probably something that was needed! I'll make your life even worse, I just ordered a new P800 for $45 off the internet. Someone on here told me I couldn't get them that cheaply so i'll find that out also.
I really don't expect the P800 to communicate (sucessfully) with their inverter as I have been told numerous times, it just doesn't compute to me, I need to find that out for myself.

I appreciate the warning about HV, if you read about me in the obits you'll know I didn't listen to that advice either


Sorry about the inconvenience but remember this is a forum!

[motorcyclemikie]

We get a lot of people who come on here and take that approach. The posts usually go like this:

"I saw a GREAT deal on panels and I spent all my money on them - 20KW! I have about $100 left, what else do I need?" They are then disheartened to hear that the panels won't even be the biggest cost for the project. They often go away very unhappy.

Stop buying stuff RIGHT NOW. Don't get a P800. Return the SE7600 even if it means paying restocking fees. Stop trying to "see if things will work." Get a copy of Solar for Dummies and read it. If you really want to buy stuff, buy a very small independent system (a panel, charge controller, small battery, small inverter) and experiment with that. You'll destroy the battery quickly - but learn a lot in the process.

You will likely end up with a smaller system than you are thinking about, using a string inverter.

Thanks I know how it works, For many years I was a hammer on the motorcycle forums and we would "squash" newbies doing exactly what I'm doing. I just wanted to find somebody that built a clever system the size that I need and he would document it with full information on everything and why he built it that way and the total cost. I'm basically a lazy person I was just looking for something easy and I could gain some knowledge in the process that's all.


You know and also I have friends they will say oh I just built a $30,000 solar system, and all they did was pick up the phone and make the call to some big organization that plugged it in and made some fat change on it, me when I say I built the solar system I mean I built it I mean I installed it I designed it, I know it inside and out and I can explain it. I know it inside and out and I can explain it. that's just me be patient I'll come up to speed

[ButchDeal]

Motorcycle engines and transmissions are in one assembly. So while not impossible to use a Yamaha transmission with a Harley engine it is not even close to being practical or cost effective. There would be better ways to achieve the desired results, which is what I think you are trying to say about this electrical project

Except larger bikes from Harley have a separate transmission. Smaller Sportster sized are one assembly.

That said if you were to bolt almost any other bikes transmission onto a Harley it likely would rip it to pieces as the engine has huge torque.


trans_6spd_9_1.jpg

which still fits well with the electrical analogy ....

[ButchDeal]

I just ordered a new P800 for $45 off the internet. Someone on here told me I couldn't get them that cheaply so i'll find that out also.
I really don't expect the P800 to communicate (sucessfully) with their inverter as I have been told numerous times, it just doesn't compute to me, I need to find that out for myself.

just going to put two details out there. one optimizer is obviously below the string length and you can not mix the P800 with any other optimizer other than the P850

might help you a little bit https://www.solaredge.com/sites/defa...imizers_na.pdf

[motorcyclemikie]

Except larger bikes from Harley have a seperate transmission. Smaller Sportster sized are one assembly.
That said if you were to bolt almost any other bikes transmission onto a Harley it likely would rip it to pieces as the engine has huge torque.

which still fits well with the electrical analogy ....

Butch that is exactly what I am talking about I know all that I have done that and I would be speaking from experience not just what I heard from somebody's brother that's cousin did it.after listening to the people at SunEdge I think their credibility is very low they don't know answers that they should that are basic

basically can anybody point me to a link on here that is a system around five or six KW that I could just copy that's all I want if not I'm going to ask questions until you throw me off here and only the moderator to do that

[ButchDeal]

You know and also I have friends they will say oh I just built a $30,000 solar system, and all they did was pick up the phone and make the call to some big organization that plugged it in and made some fat change on it, me when I say I built the solar system I mean I built it I mean I installed it I designed it, I know it inside and out and I can explain it. that's just me be patient I'll come up to speed

Several people on this forum built (designed, purchased, permitted, and installed) their own systems.
Some of the people ALSO design or have designed systems professionally. (they are the people that others called in your above example).

Get a copy of Solar for Dummies and read it, and do not try to use equipment in ways that the manufacture did no intend.

[ButchDeal]

Butch that is exactly what I am talking about I know all that I have done that and I would be speaking from experience not just what I heard from somebody's brother that's cousin did it.after listening to the people at SunEdge I think their credibility is very low they don't know answers that they should that are basic

basically can anybody point me to a link on here that is a system around five or six KW that I could just copy that's all I want if not I'm going to ask questions until you throw me off here and only the moderator to do that

As I mentioned several of the people posting on this thread have built their own from parts.
Some of them have designed and had built for other people many many more.
I have done both.

I also do some motorcycle wrenching and drive a 95ci FLHCI (started out as 88ci)

If you are looking for ready designs I would suggest you look at some of the kits on the sites. They leave off BOS/BOD/BOM but most of them come with inverter and PV modules and the better ones come with rails. You often have to add flash feet (not cheap but you don't want a leak) wires, conduit, etc. Some of the sites will do a permit pack design for a fee (or free if you order the equipment from them).
You then will have a design you can get a permit from and expect to actually work.
If you don't have either shadows or a requirement for rapid shutdown, then don't get SolarEdge. (yeah I said it).
If you do then stick to things that the SolarEdge design tool spits out.

https://www.solaredge.com/us/products/installer-tools/designer#/

[motorcyclemikie]

If you are looking for ready designs I would suggest you look at some of the kits on the sites. They leave off BOS/BOD/BOM but most of them come with inverter and PV modules and the better ones come with rails. You often have to add flash feet (not cheap but you don't want a leak) wires, conduit, etc. Some of the sites will do a permit pack design for a fee (or free if you order the equipment from them).
You then will have a design you can get a permit from and expect to actually work.
If you don't have either shadows or a requirement for rapid shutdown, then don't get SolarEdge. (yeah I said it).
If you do then stick to things that the SolarEdge design tool spits out.

https://www.solaredge.com/us/product...ols/designer#/

Butch that is exactly how I got on this form I was wondering where is the cost on these big dollar systems, and now I'm curious I want to build one for myself I will look around and I know other people have been in exactly my position I'm just trying to find my way through.

I have a copy coming of the solar for dummies, I live in the sticks so I ordered most of my things online

[motorcyclemikie]

Hey yeah, I'm sick, but now I have the se7600h inverter coming in the mail and also the p800 Optimizer, and I'm going to hook them up, this is just a small distraction in me learning and getting my system together that's all

[foo1bar]

Butch that is exactly what I am talking about I know all that I have done that and I would be speaking from experience not just what I heard from somebody's brother that's cousin did it.after listening to the people at SunEdge I think their credibility is very low they don't know answers that they should that are basic

I'm going to assume by "SunEdge" you mean Solaredge.
The people you get on the phone at Solaredge are going to be first-line support and/or sales.
Like any company you don't have the highly skilled people working the phones. The people working the phones are going to be able to escalate some things - usually something like "I'm an installer and the system I installed is having problems because X, Y, and Z". But most of the things they're going to deal with are probably the easier to answer issues, and you're asking about something that's pretty much off-label.

basically can anybody point me to a link on here that is a system around five or six KW that I could just copy that's all I want

Search for "DIY system in CA site:solarpaneltalk.com" on google - that'll be thread where I documented my build. It's 8.96kW, so slightly bigger than what you're thinking, but similar.

I'll second the suggestion made by someone else of using a supplier's website to come up with a "kit". I used Renvu's web tool as a starting point for what I bought. I made changes as I had a complex roof layout. But it gave me a good starting point - made me realize some details like needing to connect electrically across a rail joint. I think it also helped me with identifying what methodology I'd use for bonding/grounding the rails and module frames. (I went with iron ridge and their "grounding mid clamp" to connect modules to rails for the most part. Then a lug that connected the ground wire to the rail.)

I think the questions you need to have solid answers to before you are buying things:
1> how much kwh do I need?
2> how much kw of modules will get me there?
3> what's my POCO's policy/rules for net metering?
4> What is my AHJ requirements for a permit?
5> What is my AHJ requirements w.r.t. roof attachment (ex. my city has a "streamlined" process that if you have attachments every 4 feet they're willing to accept it without any further engineering review / framing analysis.
6> What is requirement for firemen access setbacks? (If your system won't fit, can you get a waiver from fire dept?)
7> Is there a requirement for rapid shut down in my location? (AHJ can answer - possibly indirectly by answering next question.)
8> Which version of NEC code am I going to need to build to?

[motorcyclemikie]

thank you Foo yes I am on step number five and ready to continue on I appreciate your help my friend

[John_Dumke]

Motorcycle Mikie,

I just finished installing a 9.24kW system on my home myself. In the link below I wrote up an article for marketing purposes, I am a Real Estate Broker. I do however have a BSME and a general contractors license. When it came to solar I knew nothing, so lots of research. Even though the article is long, there is still so much that I left out. As an example, I ordered my system through Renvu.com they sent me optimizers that were not compatible with my panels. This was only uncovered after I built out the system on the SolarEdge online design tool.

I don't really think that there will be a way to test the inverter SE7600 with one optimizer. As other have suggested, there needs to be a minimum of 8 (I believe) optimizers in a string for the string to work. In addition the inverter needs to be connected to power to work, which I believe would be 240v.

The error in my case was that I ordered P400-5 optimizers which technically should have worked with my Hanwha 385 watt panels. But based upon SolarEdge design tool, the Hanwha 385 watt panels needed to be paired with P505 optimizers. Renvu didn't catch this, but were very gracious in taking back product and shipping new product for free. The sales rep could not confirm exactly why the website didn't allow the P400-5 / Hanwha 385w match. Only that if they system didn't match up the product it was because SolarEdge engineering didn't want that match up. Renvu confirmed this as well.

Point of the story is that I still don't really have a complete explanation of why the P400-5, which can handle up to 400 watts wasn't allowed. Might it work but fail early, might it work by not correctly, would it not even register with inverter? I do not know. All I know is that I followed the manufactures specs and design tools and hopefully will avoid crawling up on the roof again and removing 24 panels and having to spend $2,000 replacing optimizers. Or worse yet, have a buggy system that causes me troubleshooting headaches that can never be solved.

And yes I wrench on motorcycles as well.

http://www.LBRE.com/solar

[motorcyclemikie]

Thanks John, good write up, I can see you have been there! I want to put in a system without the big bucks and the fluff. Heck, you can still buy a small house on a acre here for less than most people spend on a PV system.