Where's the rest of the cost?

[r3vrsengnr]

one more thing. i also got my inverter off eBay. it was installed for one day and removed. $200. got 18 s500 opti's, same story. $400. 18 cs6r-400ms-hl panels, open box, $1800. 30 roof flashing mount kits, $80. aluminum railings off two pontoon boats to TIG weld my own rack, $200. wiring, conduit, disconnect and misc i got from junked hvac systems = free. actually, the most significant cost was the $500 i got raped for by the power co for a bidirectional meter.

don't let these sheep deter you motorcyclemikie

[r3vrsengnr]

i am going to revive this thread just because i can't stand people that gang up on someone trying to do something out of the norm. reading the comments i am dumbfounded at the level of corporate brainwashing. do y'all defend to the teeth like this with everything you're told? solaredge is a business. do you really think they are going to be honest about what optimizers will actually work with what equipment? clearly some of you do.

well, i have actually tested it. not only did i use a p600 optimizer with a se7600 inverter but i put it in a string with 8 other s500 opti's. not only did the inverter sync with it no problem but the p600 outperformed the s500's because it has a higher voltage ceiling. meaning, it can keep increasing its vdc to feed the inverter longer at the end of the day while the others crap out. it's just a DC to DC buck, wtf does it matter if the inverter is three phase or single phase? it doesn't.

plus, the heat sink on the commercial opti's (and i would bet the components inside as well) are a lot beefier. but solaredge doesn't want you knowing this because then you could buy 1 opti for every two panels and they would lose a lot of money. so of course, they are going to pound it into your head that it shouldn't be done.

clowns.

[motorcyclemikie]

And priced at $500 instead of the typical ~$1500+?
I'm curious as to how you found that.
Your ability to find deals is better than mine. So please share how you're finding these prices.


p600s are already discontinued.
There's a good chance a vendor (especially one that's giving you a lower price on them) is not going to take them back without a restocking fee.
Since you've already bought them, it's too late to make sure the return policy for your vendor is generous enough for you to come out of this with it only costing you shipping expenses.
But I think you received enough warnings that this plan isn't going to work, so if you didn't check beforehand that's on you.

There are a couple of the SE7600H on eBay currently that are selling for under $1,000, I got the $500 one there, it was open box which is okay with me, also it was the RGM version, the thousand-dollar one ended in NNC2 which is the RGM also, the $949 on ebay ends in BNC4, they say it's RGM I'm not sure.

So I heard it mentioned somewhere (maybe it was on here) that when you are replacing individual optimizers that it is good practice to keep them close to within the same date code as there are possibly minor differences at different dates.

subsequently If they are obsolete there still a market for them.

[foo1bar]

Yeah, the SE7600H GSM is new,

And priced at $500 instead of the typical ~$1500+?
I'm curious as to how you found that.
Your ability to find deals is better than mine. So please share how you're finding these prices.

if still not working trade the p600's for p505's.

Are you going to be able to exchange them?
p600s are already discontinued.
There's a good chance a vendor (especially one that's giving you a lower price on them) is not going to take them back without a restocking fee.
Since you've already bought them, it's too late to make sure the return policy for your vendor is generous enough for you to come out of this with it only costing you shipping expenses.
But I think you received enough warnings that this plan isn't going to work, so if you didn't check beforehand that's on you.

Document my findings as "tried and known" so others will know the results firsthand.

Don't know why you think there's a need to document this more than what the manufacturer has already documented.
The manufacturer already says it isn't something that's supported.
But it's your money.

That is the plan! The p505 optimizers are basically the same as the P600, with a few electrical parameters that really are outside of my needed criteria

Since you're not using the tools provided by SE to determine what optimizers will work, you will need to do it manually.
You'll have to make sure that the Voc on a cold day (ie. using the thermal coefficient) is not going to exceed the max voltage input allowed by the P505 or P600.
That the Isc is not going to be larger than the max input current to the optimizer.
If you don't understand how to calculate the Voc with thermal coeficients, you should find out.

I will lose sleep if the p505's don't work the way that solaredge says and that includes operating them two panels in a Serial Fashion on one optimizer.

They specify specific parameters for the DC inputs - if you aren't within those parameters that's your own fault.

If that all fails then the next option is to spend another $500 on 12 more p505, that's 24 Total 1 per panel

Actually if you do significant over-voltage on the DC input of the optimizer, possibly you will have burnt up those 12, and now you're buying 24 more.
I don't know what modules you're considering buying and whether two in series would be much higher Voc than the p505 allows.

[John_Dumke]

MotorcycleMike,

I have no problem with you trying to make something work. All the power to you.

The problem I would have regarding a relatively complex, closed box system, would be trouble shooting things if they didn't work. I often work on cars and motorcycles and when things don't work I have to start guessing what is the likely issue. Fixing the problem can be minutes or hours, but diagnosing the problem in the first place can be days and weeks and still remain unresolved. It is also easier to trouble shoot a system that has at one time worked or follows the manufactures specs.

So if you do have a problem, how will you know that the issue was a true compatibility issue or........

1) A bad MC4 connector
2) A DOA bad optimizer
3) A faulty crimp at an MC4 connector
4) A DOA inverter
5) Firmware not being up to date on an inverter
6) A bad wiring connection
7) Simply wired wrong. MC4 crimped as male when it should have been crimped as female etc.
8) A bad panel
9) Bad wiring on a panel

The list of reasons why a system doesn't work can be too large to list. And there is no way to test each one of these possible faulty conditions to know for certain that it isn't just equipment incompatibility.

So having a new system that has yet to work or has potential compatibility issues makes troubleshooting a potential nightmare.

I wish you the best in getting a system put together, but I would not venture down a path that has me retracing my steps in frustration.

[Mike90250]

...You are a buzz kill. SE says that the se1000 key works with the IndOP optimizer which I have so what's the problem....

I've got no idea, call and speak to SE and have them fix it.. It won't be the first time Marketing does not listen to Engineering.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for all the advice, you are right . . . after 168 post and no one has done this, actually not speculatively.

Hey sorry, don't get upset I kinda thought that with a simple question, should have asked this question on MCelectrical blog, he seems to be unbiased and explains in physical terms not marketing explainations

So ask the same question over there and maybe you'll get the answers you're looking for. Then, you can come back here and enlighten all of us biased marketeers who wasted your time.

[motorcyclemikie]

168 posts and he's still not getting it.

Thanks for all the advice, you are right . . . after 168 post and no one has done this, actually not speculatively.

Hey sorry, don't get angry with this question, I kinda thought that with a simple question, should have asked this question on MCelectrical blog, he seems to be unbiased and explains in physical terms not marketing explainations

[littleharbor]

168 posts and he's still not getting it.

[ButchDeal]

You are a buzz kill.

reality is your buzz kill here. I am just the one trying to explain it to you, but at this point trying to keep anyone from falling for your mistakes.
really not sure why the mods are allowing your statements which are clearly counter to the manufacturers documentation and would if followed disable the required safety measures of the system.

SE says that the se1000 key works with the IndOP optimizer which I have so what's the problem. Do you know for a fact that this will not operate the way that solaredge says

You are miss reading SolarEdge documentation. I am explaining what they are saying to you and you are still miss understanding.
Do you have documentation that the P600 has IndOP? (they are not listed as supporting IndOP).

Do you understand that the SolarEdge inverter requires a regulated DC voltage input and that putting optimizers into this mode means that the optimizer voltage output equals the voltage input? That that means that the optimizers can not regulate the voltage that then goes to the inverter which of course requires regulated voltage?

I am really only concerned with the output as that is what affects the inverter not the input from the optimizer.

Again read the documentation... Don't be so obtuse here.
in the mode you want to put them in (which the optimizer doesn't support) it will not work with SolarEdge inverters.

[motorcyclemikie]

You are talking about disabling the solaredge inverter capability so that the optimizers will work with non-solaredge inverters. I don't know why you think this will make them compatible with the residential inverters. What it will do is make them incompatible with solaredge inverters.

The SE1000-Key is no longer supported by SolarEdge and only worked with a limited set of optimizers, most of which are not made any more. The ones that it still works with are the ones that are built into PV modules.

From the manual


The optimizer will no longer be able to alter the output voltage which means it will not maintain the voltage that the SolarEdge inverter needs to operate....



The P600 has very little in common with the P505. They have ONE spec that is the same, does not make them "basically" the same!
Again you can do your own experimenting but stop spitting out your ill-informed guesses as gospel

You are a buzz kill. SE says that the se1000 key works with the IndOP optimizer which I have so what's the problem. Do you know for a fact that this will not operate the way that solaredge says have you had experience with this I mean actual hands-on experience


Do you own a SE1000 key, used one, or even touched one?



The PXXX all above P400 have a up to 85Vout , that includes the P505 & P600, the input parameters are Broad and subsequently match just about any panel available.
I am really only concerned with the output as that is what affects the inverter not the input from the optimizer.

[ButchDeal]

3.5> Disable the Safe-v feature (SE1000-key)

You are talking about disabling the solaredge inverter capability so that the optimizers will work with non-solaredge inverters. I don't know why you think this will make them compatible with the residential inverters. What it will do is make them incompatible with solaredge inverters.

The SE1000-Key is no longer supported by SolarEdge and only worked with a limited set of optimizers, most of which are not made any more. The ones that it still works with are the ones that are built into PV modules.

From the manual

SafeDC Disabled: When the power optimizer is connected to a PV module, its output voltage is limited to the open circuit voltage (Voc) of the connected PV module.

The optimizer will no longer be able to alter the output voltage which means it will not maintain the voltage that the SolarEdge inverter needs to operate....

That is the plan! The p505 optimizers are basically the same as the P600, with a few electrical parameters that really are outside of my needed criteria

The P600 has very little in common with the P505. They have ONE spec that is the same, does not make them "basically" the same!
Again you can do your own experimenting but stop spitting out your ill-informed guesses as gospel

[motorcyclemikie]

From the way you phrase that, I assume you are not buying new.
Which is fine if you're comfortable with that. I wasn't for my own install.

So I take it that your plan is:
1> buy the P600s,
2> hook them up
3> Find out that they won't communicate with the inverter because they aren't compatible (Solaredge's documentation says they're not compatible) And since they won't communicate most likely they won't do anything other than their default 1V output.
4> buy a new set of optimizers and use those to get your system running
5> sell the P600s? donate them?

Doesn't sound very cost effective to me - but it's your money to do with as you please.

Looks like the P600 are discontinued - so I expect pricing will be all over the place. Some vendors will want to move the stock to get it out of their warehouse, others will see it as a way to ask for more $$$ from those who need a like-for-like replacement for their existing system.

Good luck.

Yeah, the SE7600H GSM is new, I bought the European manufactured P600 optimizers (date code indicates series 5) already.

You left out step 3.5

3.5> Disable the Safe-v feature (SE1000-key) and if still not working trade the p600's for p505's. Document my findings as "tried and known" so others will know the results firsthand.


That is the plan! The p505 optimizers are basically the same as the P600, with a few electrical parameters that really are outside of my needed criteria

I am not going to lose any sleep if they (P600) do not work the way I would like them to, but I will lose sleep if the p505's don't work the way that solaredge says and that includes operating them two panels in a Serial Fashion on one optimizer.

If that all fails then the next option is to spend another $500 on 12 more p505, that's 24 Total 1 per panel


one of solar edges app Notes specifically talks about installing two panels per one Optimizer to cut the BOS cost virtually in half. The increased reliability of the resulting system with fewer components and much fewer connectors would undoubtably be a serious advantage

[foo1bar]

with a little bit of online shopping I have found that I can buy the identical same brand new equipment that the big online retailers sell for about a third of their price.

New SE7600H GSM they want $1800 you can find it for $500 to $1000 I got mine for $500.

From the way you phrase that, I assume you are not buying new.
Which is fine if you're comfortable with that. I wasn't for my own install.
New price that I see for a SE7600H (nonGSM) is $1451 and $1518 (renvu and soligent)

I don't think there is any "big" online retailers for solar equipment.
They all seem to be regional players, focused on installers in their area.

New SE P600 optimizers they want $89 . . online pricing $35 to $45, I paid $38 each for mine however I use one per every two solar panels ( I don't need the single panel resolution). I really wanted the p505 I just haven't found the correct deal for them yet that is, but they should be about the same price.

So I take it that your plan is:
1> buy the P600s,
2> hook them up
3> Find out that they won't communicate with the inverter because they aren't compatible (Solaredge's documentation says they're not compatible) And since they won't communicate most likely they won't do anything other than their default 1V output.
4> buy a new set of optimizers and use those to get your system running
5> sell the P600s? donate them?

Doesn't sound very cost effective to me - but it's your money to do with as you please.

Looks like the P600 are discontinued - so I expect pricing will be all over the place. Some vendors will want to move the stock to get it out of their warehouse, others will see it as a way to ask for more $$$ from those who need a like-for-like replacement for their existing system.

Good luck.

[motorcyclemikie]

So after rereading this thread I feel embarrassed about some of the previous questions that I asked. I have learned a lot since then. I am still happy with my choice to go with solaredge equipment even though I had to enter "advanced DIY" mode to get satisfaction on my questions!

I have come to realize how this absurd turn key pricing structure came about. ONSITE CUSTOMER SUPPORT is not cheap and can make or break a small operator, particularly with high casualty prone equipment. If a PV package charges for that the customer usually wants the support to ensure their investment pays off to the full intended capabilities.

all that being said here's what I have found out so far, with a little bit of online shopping I have found that I can buy the identical same brand new equipment that the big online retailers sell for about a third of their price.

New SE7600H GSM they want $1800 you can find it for $500 to $1000 I got mine for $500.

New SE P600 optimizers they want $89 . . online pricing $35 to $45, I paid $38 each for mine however I use one per every two solar panels ( I don't need the single panel resolution). I really wanted the p505 I just haven't found the correct deal for them yet that is, but they should be about the same price.

I'm shopping for my PV panels at this time, I expect to pay $0.35 a watt for decent panels that match my system needs.

I am still searching for a good group of installers, I live in the sticks so my choices are a little Limited. When I find my installers I will see what racking system they are familiar with and probably go with that, I don't need any problems. the racking price that I got from a big online dealer was $60 per panel, looking around I think that half that price is more than reasonable, I am sure you guys know this I just haven't been able to find this information.

I bought tools, splices ,connectors, and a roll of wire . . . $100

I I am not bragging, these are real today prices if you pay more than that then bless you somebody needs your money.
If you guys are configuring and installing systems and you quote the customer a $1,800 price for the inverter and then go and buy one like I did for $500 and pocket the rest . . . Shame on you, the customer will always find this out and it will get back to you one way or the other


Incidently I bought series 5 European made (not Chinese) P600 optimizers