State Farm won't insure my solar panels

[sunpoweredev]

Is there a good insurance company ? Less crappy maybe, but good is not a word I'd use.

I'm please with our policy with NJM (New Jersey Manufacturers), and AFAIK (and based on their name) they only service New Jersey. When hurricane Sandy hit, we lost a bunch of shingles and the resulting leaks stained the family room ceiling. Long story short NJM sent us a check within 2 weeks of the claim, based on the first ripoff quote we received. The quote was nearly 1/2 the cost of my entire new roof from less than 2 months ago, in case you were wondering.. It was the most unpleasant experience ever dealing with contractors. They were out to make a killing right after a major storm. They charged me $500 just to tarp up the area (lousily I'll add, and needing just one piece of tarp), but this was NJM's requirement that we tarp it up ASAP.

Anyway, I called NJM right after signing the agreement on our PV system to see what the additional premium would be. I was informed that I wouldn't have to add specific coverage to the system, that it'll just be covered as if it was any other home improvements or additions, up to our current coverage limits. Is this the case with you guys? I think I should call and ask them again just to be sure.

[Markyrocks69]

Ok so I figured I'd give an update. Originally statefarm told me that nothing needed to change, if they were on my house theyd be covered under the same conditions as the house. I told them that they arnt on the house and besides that if my house is only covered for a certain amount, in a complete loss situation wouldn't my coverage need to go up? I explained that the total replacement value would be somewhere in the area of 50 grand. If a tree falls on my array I'm not going to be the one building it again. No way in hell.

So they called me back and said they're putting a note on the account referencing the solar panel installation as like a separate out building and that they upped my coverage 50grand. I asked if they needed any other information about the system, they said no....

I wouldn't be surprised if my agents office is terribly uninformed but the guy said he spoke to the underwriter and that was all they required from him... so idk if this varies from office to office, state to state but apparently I'm covered from everything except flooding. Which if it floods at my house you better call Noah bc some serious stuff is going down. (I basically live on top of a giant hill surrounded by valleys).

[sunpoweredev]

I'm covered from everything except flooding. Which if it floods at my house you better call Noah bc some serious stuff is going down. (I basically live on top of a giant hill surrounded by valleys).

So am I, and that's what I thought. Hurricane Irene came a year before Sandy. My basement had like 8 inches of water. This was a real shocker to me how I can have water in the basement on this hill. I guess with that much rain with the soil already completely saturated, the water had nowhere else to go but up my sump. I'm assuming that's where it came in from, as when I first discovered it everything was already floating down there. It went away pretty quick after the rain stopped.

It saved me a bunch of money from looking into finishing the basement lol.

[Markyrocks69]

So am I, and that's what I thought. Hurricane Irene came a year before Sandy. My basement had like 8 inches of water. This was a real shocker to me how I can have water in the basement on this hill. I guess with that much rain with the soil already completely saturated, the water had nowhere else to go but up my sump. I'm assuming that's where it came in from, as when I first discovered it everything was already floating down there. It went away pretty quick after the rain stopped.

It saved me a bunch of money from looking into finishing the basement lol.

We don't get hurricanes here. Western pa, were kinda tucked in a sweet spot, the weather is very mild. We also dont normally get tornados, earthquakes, volcano eruptions, forest fires ect. Every once in awhile it will dump 10 inches of snow but that's like once in 20 years. Hasn't really even snowed much last couple years.

[malba2366]

My agent told me Travelers has the same stipulation when I asked about my policy. It is likely that they consider a system with over 125% generation is there for non residential (ie. revenue generation) purposes.

[NCmountainsOffgrid]

I agree that what may look to you, the homeowner, as simply an 'oversized' system, where you get the pleasure of 'charging back the electric company' when you generator enough overage, it starts to look to the INSURER as a 'Commercial Enterprise', otherwise, a business to make money, which is considered 'Commercial', and not 'Residential', when it comes to how the risk is transferred to the Insurer. Homeowner policies, while very effective with everything that they cover, are not, and were never, designed to accommodate the risk associated with BUSINESS RELATED activities, even if the homeowner 'swears' that is not the intent.
Because you have entered into, what is effectively, a BUSINESS agreement with the electrical provider, you are now seen as a BUSINESS, which requires Commercial Coverage, due to the additional and supplemental risks associated with it, versus just the 'normal average homeowner'. And, since most homes do NOT have solar panels, and certainly do NOT have enough capacity, if they do, to 'sell' any power back to an electrical company, the very, very small niche, but possibly very EXPENSIVE, 'business' risk that your homeowner policy must now 'cover' cannot be reasonably assessed, across the board, to all homeowners - it wouldn't be 'fair' to everyone else, at least in the way that insurance works. Many might even argue that it should be a simple 'rider' that is an optional purchase on the policy, but Insurers are smart, and they don't offer 'options' if it doesn't make business sense to their underwriting department.

I suspect that this might be a risk that 'some' insurers may not yet frown upon, or even may already 'limit' coverage in their existing policies, but it could also be that this simple move by SF will bring out those smaller companies who may decide that they DO want to offer this coverage, giving them a possible larger piece of the pie, especially in certain geographic areas.

If the whole of america had solar panels, and a majority had the capacity to 'sell back' power, then you might see this a more common 'coverage' for insurance, but until the industry and the need and the desire of the public to take it up as a viable power source, it's probably a market risk that is too expensive, for the comparable homeowner premium. The owner's will stand up and announce that they are willing to pay a price for this coverage, after all, THEY are the ones with the risk, but all the other majority of homeowners will probably not want the additional premium associated with such a small market, especially when it doesn't effect them. They didn't purchase a solar system, so they don't want to pay to 'cover' one.

But, the reality is that SF is saying this ONLY effects those who have 125% or more of power output, versus what they used. That in itself is probably a very, very small piece of even the number of homes with solar. I also doubt that they are going to 'audit' your electric bill/income. Only at the point of a large/total claim on a home would this come into play, if it actually ever does at all, unless the claim could actually be pointed directly to something that the 'solar array/system' had to do with causing the loss. Sometimes wording and exclusions in a policy are enough to cause people to 'change' their thought process, when it comes to what 'risks' they can entertain under their home policy. For many years pools, pools without fences, pools with fences but without a gate lock, above ground pools with a ladder not moved away from the side when not in use, trampolines, trampolines without fall guards, and trampolines also without 'sides' could cause the same problem with homeowners. Some companies still ask questions relating to these potential problems, some have only a cursory yes/no, and some don't even ask any more, as so many homes had either of these, or both. A dog that can bite, has bitten, or is a certain breed, can also cause homeowners the same concerns.

Yes, sometimes you just have to take on any 'risk' yourself, even as slight and minute as it might actually be.

As much as people believe, not everything is insurable.

[pclausen]

Very interesting thread. I started out with a 20 kW system which was more than enough to cover the energy usage of my house. That was back in 2017 and I have a net metering arrangement in place with my POCO. Any excess I produce builds up as a "bank" of kWh that I can then use when I consume more than I use. This done at a 1:1 ratio, My cost is $0.13 per kWh, so my bank is worth that much per kWh as well.

Anyway, I started getting into crypto mining and now have equipment that, when running it all, consumes around 20 kW 24/7. My current load from crypto mining is just under 10 kW 24/7.

Needles to say, that 20 kW DC system was not at all able to keep up with my power demands, so I have been slowly adding additional arrays (these are ground mounted as I have no more roof space). My capacity will be right around 50 kW DC once I complete my current expansion project. So I have now maxed out a 225A sub-panel just from solar.

I double checked with my insurance company that my solar panels would be covered since the policy did not state it implicitly. They came back to me and confirmed that indeed they were, as long as I owned them. They did not specify any stipulations. One could argue that I'm indeed running a "business" mining crypto, but I don't plan to bring it up with the insurer unless they ask me point blank.

Btw, all my mining equipment is in a shop building some 200' from the main house, which is also where I have a 400A "sub meter base" that powers all the mining equipment and has a 225A sub-panel hanging off of it for mining. Everything was inspected by the county back in 2017 and the POCO also came out and inspected everything for the Net Metering agreement. Granted I have since added 30 kW worth if solar capacity, but I build the infrastructure to support it from the get go.

Last year the POCO also came out of upgraded my transformer from a 25KVA unit to a 50KVA one, since my power usage was starting to exceed that a 25KVA unit could support. That's when I started adding solar arrays. I run a mix of micro inveter arrays (138 250W inveters), and 2 string arrays (each feeding a Sunny Boy 7.7Kw inveter). So my AC generating capacity is 49,990 Kw.