SDG&E Rates Update

[Sunking]

We interrupt our normal energy bloviating and condescension schedule for this special request induced rant on the state of the U.S.

Rant mode on

Since you're asking, but before the show begins, the short answer is no, I would not do back flips, or at least not care much what happens to prices.

Actually if I was making the rules, I'd get rid of all subsidies, tax credits, solar and otherwise, oil depletion allowances, import tariffs - all of it. Then, get the government tax system out of everyone's life, go to a flat tax with no deductions or credits for anything - and I mean nothing. I'd push for a constitutionally mandated balanced budget every year with any budget deficit, or surplus, cleared out the following year by adjusting the tax rate and reset that flat tax rate from year to year based on a budget we all vote on with a double tax penalty for those who don't vote.

I have no problem with that other than one exception on deficit, War which is coming, It has already started, just not declared as of yet. Income tax was started to pay for wars. 16th Amendment changed that and is how Obama Care was implemented. Flat Tax would get my vote, 10% across the board no matter what income level.

I'd either like to see the price of energy go where it will without any gov. intervention as would happen with the above moronic bucket list. ORRR:

No problem there, let the Free Market define price. The Free Market is self correcting.

In a more practical but still pretty drastic way, raise energy prices via taxation to absolutely draconian levels via the tax code and use the revenue to reduce the national debt to zero. Once that's paid off, if it's not too late, I'd continue to tax energy, but use the revenue to scrap and rebuild the public education system in this country. What we have now is the root cause of our eminent, and probably now unavoidable demise. Our education system was once first class. Now it's a baby sitting service and a damnable joke. But, I've little real hope of that changing that as ignorant people are easier to control because they're easier to B.S. Look what we've got now as examples. We 've become a nation of nitwit palm zombies. Along the way, as the educational system gets rebuilt and people learn how to think and get educated educated (which is not what they're getting now), again if it's not too late, they'll use less energy.

Amen

Only issue I take with that, is there are less painful ways to pay off national debt..

[J.P.M.]

I have no problem with that other than one exception on deficit, War which is coming, It has already started, just not declared as of yet. Income tax was started to pay for wars. 16th Amendment changed that and is how Obama Care was implemented. Flat Tax would get my vote, 10% across the board no matter what income level.

No problem there, let the Free Market define price. The Free Market is self correcting.



Amen

Only issue I take with that, is there are less painful ways to pay off national debt..

Sensij was correct in his observation that I hijacked the thread. My apologies. Put the nails in, but save time and use the same holes as the last guy.

I only offer the excuse of being more off my game than usual from being in mourning at the death of my country from what has all the hallmarks and presentations of Alzheimer's. No joke.

As for pain, I was once in a group that heard a very senior Marine Corps NCO (E-8) state that pain was nothing more than weakness leaving the body.

[Mike90250]

As for pain, I was once in a group that heard a very senior Marine Corps NCO (E-8) state that pain was nothing more than weakness leaving the body.

Every Marine learns that saying in Boot Camp. And it's true

[sensij]

I'm a big fan of using PVoutput for live tariff evaluation. Retrospectively, it is kind of a pain since you can only load one tariff at a time, so summer and winter needed to be evaluated separately.

For those who survived the threadjack... Per SDG&E, the deadline is not July 28, but December 1, which is when the later peak hours will become effective for new customers who take service on the tou tariffs.

Uggh, I just got a letter in the mail from SDG&E indicating the July 28 deadline for TOU time period grandfathering. Since this is the first statement I've seen clearly in writing (and not trying to parse CPUC proceedings), I'll trust it over the verbal assurance of Dec. 1.

[hockeydude]

Just looking for some advice on these rate options as I got my letter from SDGE yesterday. I am NEM-1 and my system I have had for 2 years. Just had my true up I am basically producing 100% of what is needed with a very small credit (so overproducing). SDGE site shows switching to TOU will have no effect on my bill which makes sense since I have no bill. Just need to understand long term what would be best or if it will really even matter for me. If I don't switch to TOU, do I stay at Tiered for all 20 years?

[Mike90250]

As long as you are sure you can produce enough power at the "Prime Hours" that you don't go into the hole selling at 4 cents and buying at 20 cents.
What are the specific hours of the Prime rate 11am - 9pm ?
Can you produce enough 11am - 4pm, to break even 6pm - 9pm ?

[sensij]

Just need to understand long term what would be best or if it will really even matter for me. If I don't switch to TOU, do I stay at Tiered for all 20 years?

Over the next couple years, SDG&E will begin switching their tiered customers to TOU plans, giving them the option to elect back in to the tiered plan if they want. I don't know for how many years tiered plans will continue to be available, 20 years is a long time to try to guess ahead.

If you are generally overproducing now... Unless you expect to be adding an EV in the next year or two, staying on the tiered plan is probably best.

To get hyper-detailed about it... the SDG&E rate comparison tool doesn't say how much excess billing credit you would have on the TOU plan since those credits get reset to zero each year without a payout ( they still pay or for excess production though). If you ran your usage through a spreadsheet and found that the excess NEM credit from the TOU plan is worth more than the *retail* dollar value of your over production (not the wholesale rate they actually pay you for it), switching to TOU might make sense.

[J.P.M.]

Just looking for some advice on these rate options as I got my letter from SDGE yesterday. I am NEM-1 and my system I have had for 2 years. Just had my true up I am basically producing 100% of what is needed with a very small credit (so overproducing). SDGE site shows switching to TOU will have no effect on my bill which makes sense since I have no bill. Just need to understand long term what would be best or if it will really even matter for me. If I don't switch to TOU, do I stay at Tiered for all 20 years?

For those who are overproducing on a tiered tariff as you are, w/ SDG & E anyway, and at this time anyway, the utility is probably correct, provided your situation doesn't change.

Given the uncertainty of what's going to happen to rates, times, tariffs and the general energy picture around here, any of what's likely to be, in most any scenario, a small increase in your overproduction payment seems a small price to pay to avoid the screwing around, hassle and uncertainty about long term consequences in changing plans. Right now, you don't have a bill and, to the extent you can believe in a stable future, if your usage stays about where it is, and your system performance doesn't roll off too much, you won't have much of a bill for the next 18 years or so if what you've been led to believe under NEM 1.0 holds true.

Besides, I'd bet money you will always be able to switch to T.O.U. just about any time in the future at your choosing, although the terms of the switch will probably be different than they are at present. Education and information are two necessary attributed to making an informed decision. Some homework and self education is usually necessary.

FWIW, I'm in the same position as you, SDG & E, overproducing on tiered residential tariff, and I'm holding pat, at least for now.

[CharlieEscCA]

Where we differ is in my interpretation that everyone on NEM 2 (and maybe NEM 1 is different) was going to get kicked off tiered in 2019, And thus, when you get kicked off to a TOU (if that is the case), it would be the TOU time periods in place at that point in time. Thus, in May (my second billing period), I switched to TOU now to get the 11 am to 6 pm time period locked in for the five year period.

It's easy for my to see (even in my limited time on solar) that TOU with 11 am to 6 pm peak is a huge advantage to me in my current state of overproduction. My wife has been thrilled these past few weeks with the thermostat set at 78. I still shut down the AC and open windows once its about 76 degrees outside (may reconsider if humidity is at dripping levels). Just got the latest bill today. Still added $127 more credit to my running total -- may have to lower the thermostat some more

In any event, my usage this billing period on tiered rates would have been $525 and change.

Oh, and the NBC charges this month still make absolutely no sense. My bill says "your non-bypassable charges for this month were based on usage of 15 kWn", $0.26 total. This with a lot of kWh coming from the grid when I drew upon the grid battery.

The bill this month was thus $10.72 for 32 days.

[sensij]

Nem-st (nem 2) customers can stay on the tiered plan 5 years before getting kicked off.

[J.P.M.]

Where we differ is in my interpretation that everyone on NEM 2 (and maybe NEM 1 is different) was going to get kicked off tiered in 2019, And thus, when you get kicked off to a TOU (if that is the case), it would be the TOU time periods in place at that point in time. Thus, in May (my second billing period), I switched to TOU now to get the 11 am to 6 pm time period locked in for the five year period.

It's easy for my to see (even in my limited time on solar) that TOU with 11 am to 6 pm peak is a huge advantage to me in my current state of overproduction. My wife has been thrilled these past few weeks with the thermostat set at 78. I still shut down the AC and open windows once its about 76 degrees outside (may reconsider if humidity is at dripping levels). Just got the latest bill today. Still added $127 more credit to my running total -- may have to lower the thermostat some more

In any event, my usage this billing period on tiered rates would have been $525 and change.

Oh, and the NBC charges this month still make absolutely no sense. My bill says "your non-bypassable charges for this month were based on usage of 15 kWn", $0.26 total. This with a lot of kWh coming from the grid when I drew upon the grid battery.

The bill this month was thus $10.72 for 32 days.

Understood, but your interpretation may not be correct. Lots of confusion around what's going to happen in the future and who it may affect and how. True to form, SDG & E isn't doing much to clarify the situation as doing so is not mandated by law, or at least any law that's being enforced.

Your ride on mid day high T.O.U. rates ought to last 5 years, but I wouldn't take my or anyone else's word on that without POCO written confirmation.

What billing cycle are you on, or when did your last billing period close ? If you are overproducing that much now, NOMB, but looking at the last 31 days of weather/temps. around here and that much overgeneration during roughly the same period would tell me you may be oversized. The ave. temp. for the prior 31 days at my house has been ~ 6.3 F. above the 10yr. average (74.1 vs. 67.8 F.) for the same period. That's a lot. Yours may be similar.

FWIW, If I as selling, as I seem to recall you are, I'd crank the thermostat down a notch, and a real lot, particularly if you have real estate open house on hot days. Put the zero utility bills in a prominent spot where the very cold and dehumidified air will be blowing up potential customers' knickers.The added PV will have a better chance of improving the possibilities of getting your price if aided by a show of getting something desirable (very effective A/C) for the appearance of costing nothing (the zeroed out bills).

[CharlieEscCA]

Understood, but your interpretation may not be correct. Lots of confusion around what's going to happen in the future and who it may affect and how. True to form, SDG & E isn't doing much to clarify the situation as doing so is not mandated by law, or at least any law that's being enforced.

Your ride on mid day high T.O.U. rates ought to last 5 years, but I wouldn't take my or anyone else's word on that without POCO written confirmation.

What billing cycle are you on, or when did your last billing period close ? If you are overproducing that much now, NOMB, but looking at the last 31 days of weather/temps. around here and that much overgeneration during roughly the same period would tell me you may be oversized. The ave. temp. for the prior 31 days at my house has been ~ 6.3 F. above the 10yr. average (74.1 vs. 67.8 F.) for the same period. That's a lot. Yours may be similar.

FWIW, If I as selling, as I seem to recall you are, I'd crank the thermostat down a notch, and a real lot, particularly if you have real estate open house on hot days. Put the zero utility bills in a prominent spot where the very cold and dehumidified air will be blowing up potential customers' knickers.The added PV will have a better chance of improving the possibilities of getting your price if aided by a show of getting something desirable (very effective A/C) for the appearance of costing nothing (the zeroed out bills).

The five year grandfathering of the current TOU time periods for NEM 2 who switch to TOU by 7/31/2017 is in writing -- but it's hard to find on SDGE site.

My bill just closed July 9th (last day of period) and it was for 32 days.

I purposely oversized explicitly to run A/C. In the past, we literally only ran it when it absolutely needed to be run for marriage sake -- living in Chicago heat and humidity without A/C makes our warm weather not too bad most of the time. I took a guesstimate at how much production I needed over the 10K kWh used the prior 12 months. Then add in my unknowns of shade from all my trees on my lot (I had some who had come out and said "no, can't do solar unless you take out all those trees" to others who measured 17% loss to shading, I didn't know what I needed. But sized the way I went, I still hit break even in 5.5 years at what I paid in the prior 12 months for the 10K kWh -- and if I used all of the extra I sized for, break even was at three years and a couple of months.

However, having a happy wife in the last few weeks of not too bad yet heat has been nearly priceless. Then when I calculate the bill using the tiered rate structure for this 32 day period and see it would have been $525, it brings a smile to my frugal side.

And yes, I will be selling, but probably early next year. It's a slow process to decide on a designer / builder, then a slower process to get the permits and build. Just lot's of $ and "fun" times ahead ...

[J.P.M.]

The five year grandfathering of the current TOU time periods for NEM 2 who switch to TOU by 7/31/2017 is in writing -- but it's hard to find on SDGE site.

My bill just closed July 9th (last day of period) and it was for 32 days.

I purposely oversized explicitly to run A/C. In the past, we literally only ran it when it absolutely needed to be run for marriage sake -- living in Chicago heat and humidity without A/C makes our warm weather not too bad most of the time. I took a guesstimate at how much production I needed over the 10K kWh used the prior 12 months. Then add in my unknowns of shade from all my trees on my lot (I had some who had come out and said "no, can't do solar unless you take out all those trees" to others who measured 17% loss to shading, I didn't know what I needed. But sized the way I went, I still hit break even in 5.5 years at what I paid in the prior 12 months for the 10K kWh -- and if I used all of the extra I sized for, break even was at three years and a couple of months.

However, having a happy wife in the last few weeks of not too bad yet heat has been nearly priceless. Then when I calculate the bill using the tiered rate structure for this 32 day period and see it would have been $525, it brings a smile to my frugal side.

And yes, I will be selling, but probably early next year. It's a slow process to decide on a designer / builder, then a slower process to get the permits and build. Just lot's of $ and "fun" times ahead ...

Thank you for the info. Everybody happy is priceless.

A $525 non solar bill for 32 days on the DR (tiered) tariff, summer schedule, inland, non-electric only, would mean a draw from SDG & E ~1,440 - 1,450 or so kWh for the billing period at current rates. That about close ?

[cebury]

The grandfathering is in writing, albeit very short without much detail, on PGEs TOU tariffs themselves, even seen them on the summary spreadsheets. Wouldnt surprise me SDGE would make it harder.. PGE closed its older, more solar friendly tou called E6 schedule early this year, the current tou started the timemshifting process below. Here is relevant text how they phase their increases in to comply with the cpuc. Is there not even this much detail for SDGE?

PGE E6 TARIFF

TIME PERIODS
describes current peak periods, etc. Summer M-F Peak being 1pm to 7pm, partial peak 7-9pm.

TIME PERIODS (Contd.):
Pursuant to CPUC Decision 15-11-013, the TOU time periods described above will remain in place only through December 31, 2020, after which the peak period
hours will transition to later in the day. In 2021, the times of year and times of the day will be defined as follows:

changes Summer M-F Peak times to 3pm to 8pm. Partpeak noon to 3pm, 8pm-10pm. See details for other times.

In 2022, the times of year and times of the day will be defined as follows:

changes Summer M-F Peak to 4pm-9pm, Partpeak 2pm-4pm and 9pm-10pm, (8am to 2pm is offpeak)

In 2023, all remaining grandfathered Schedule E-6 customers shall be transitioned to PG&Es then-existing default residential rate schedule, unless they indicate that they instead prefer to take service under a then-existing optional schedule.In 2021 and 2022 when E-6 is revised to a four-month summer season, the baseline quantities will change from those shown in Section 2

[J.P.M.]

The grandfathering is in writing, albeit very short without much detail, on PGEs TOU tariffs themselves, even seen them on the summary spreadsheets. Wouldnt surprise me SDGE would make it harder.. PGE closed its older, more solar friendly tou called E6 schedule early this year, the current tou started the timemshifting process below. Here is relevant text how they phase their increases in to comply with the cpuc. Is there not even this much detail for SDGE?

PGE E6 TARIFF

TIME PERIODS
describes current peak periods, etc. Summer M-F Peak being 1pm to 7pm, partial peak 7-9pm.

TIME PERIODS (Contd.):
Pursuant to CPUC Decision 15-11-013, the TOU time periods described above will remain in place only through December 31, 2020, after which the peak period
hours will transition to later in the day. In 2021, the times of year and times of the day will be defined as follows:

changes Summer M-F Peak times to 3pm to 8pm. Partpeak noon to 3pm, 8pm-10pm. See details for other times.

In 2022, the times of year and times of the day will be defined as follows:

changes Summer M-F Peak to 4pm-9pm, Partpeak 2pm-4pm and 9pm-10pm, (8am to 2pm is offpeak)

In 2023, all remaining grandfathered Schedule E-6 customers shall be transitioned to PG&Es then-existing default residential rate schedule, unless they indicate that they instead prefer to take service under a then-existing optional schedule.In 2021 and 2022 when E-6 is revised to a four-month summer season, the baseline quantities will change from those shown in Section 2

And you have seen the future (subject to change). Other I.O.U's subject to CPUC directives may be different. Suggest everyone check w/ their POCO if in the same as Cebury's.