$5.42/per Watt in Southern California overall system cost, how bad is it?

[msobal79]

$62,215 before 30% FTR for 11.48 kW system. 41 Solarworld 280W mono black with 41 Enphase M250 micro-inverters mounted on Unirac Solarmount rail, along with 225 amp main panel upgrade and relocation, conversion of 150 amp main panel to 150 amp sub, and upgrade of existing 60 amp sub-panel, all panels with new breakers. I have a strong feeling we overpaid here, but until now didn't have any known resource to quantify it. So please be gentle.

[huge]

You overpaid by almost $30,000. Cancel the contract if you can. You're not even going to save any money with that price

[msobal79]

How do you figure $30,000?

Prior to looking into Solar we had an electrician come in and quote us on a 200 amp panel upgrade/relocate. The scope of work entailed in the quote and that which was done by the solar company are virtually identical. The electrician quoted $3500 for new 200 amp panel and top, conversion of exiting main panel to sub with updated breakers, and upgrade of exiting 60A sub panel with new breakers.

[J.P.M.]

I'm not one to kick someone when they are down, but that's about as gentle as I can get and still write what's on my mind.

FWIW, I'd respectfully suggest anyone reading this forum who is considering an investment or commitment to a residential PV system and has not yet signed a contract, to take very special note to read this thread and msobal79's other thread.

With serious apologies to all the honest and professional solar vendors who also bear the load and potential harm to their reputation and thus livelihood from the actions of the dishonest scumbag ripoff conmen who glom off the general solar ignorance of most everyone:

This post and the OP's other thread are, IMO, good examples of what happens when the solar ignorant believe the hype, lies and just plain B.S. that dishonest solar peddlers scammers spew like vomit .

Not my money/home/life/business/business, but potential PV users would be well and better served if they took a deep breath, thought about their situation objectively, educated themselves objectively and independent of any vendors or those with anything to be gained from the potential user, about the realities and limitations of residential PV and stopped believing all the often ridiculous B.S./hype designed to do no more than separate fools from their money, and stop running in near or actual panic from self inflicted high electric bills, and instead move toward lower bills that education and sane alternative energy measures that self education will allow and foster.

Caveat Emptor. What you don't know and/or fail to learn can and will at least cost you money, if not hurt you.

Knowledge is power. Get some of the first with respect to energy. The second will follow and allow some additional control of your own energy bills.

[FFE]

I disagree with the overpaid by $30,000 statement. You did pay a premium price. One of the highest I've seen in SoCal. Assuming that you have a tile roof, they didn't flush mount the panels, didn't break tiles or replaced them with matching tiles and considering the extra electrical work... You overpaid by a fairly big amount. You can sleep well knowing that you have control over the cost of your electricity and you are generating power in an environmentally friendly way as part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

[msobal79]

We have a shingle roof. System was mounted with Unirac solar mount rack system. Approx 4-6" offset from roof surface.

[FFE]

Huge, the difference is pretty close to $30,000 if he would have received a great deal. If you trust Yelp... The 15.1 kW DC system for $39,000 was for one panel to be upgraded and add an 80 amp outlet (not an entire panel, could have been 10 minutes of labor, a new breaker, outlet and one foot of wire). The OP added a new panel in a new location and became the main panel, the original panel repurposed and replaced another panel. Not even close to the same thing. The OP also has three arrays with two having landscape and portrait orientation on the same array. Lets assume the 15.1 kW DC system only received the $0.30 per watt rebate from LAWPD. Now the 15.1kW DC system is $2.88 per watt for Suniva/Solar Edge. Add in the $0.10 Solarword premium and you are at $2.98 for a larger system. Now you are at $34,200 for an 11.48 kW system. Add a couple thousand for the extra electrical work, a little more since the 30+% larger system should be less per watt and the multiple arrays/orientation (not sure what the Yelp reviewer had) and you are closer to $25,000 than $30,000 if you are a great negotiator that promises to post a great review on Yelp.

[huge]

That makes sense, thanks FFE

[J.P.M.]

I disagree with the overpaid by $30,000 statement. You did pay a premium price. One of the highest I've seen in SoCal. Assuming that you have a tile roof, they didn't flush mount the panels, didn't break tiles or replaced them with matching tiles and considering the extra electrical work... You overpaid by a fairly big amount. You can sleep well knowing that you have control over the cost of your electricity and you are generating power in an environmentally friendly way as part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

Whether they realize or choose to believe it, the OP and everyone else has always had and will continue to have control over how much they pay for electricity, with or without PV. It's about choices. Education and reasoned approaches can lead to better choices, including a lower probability of getting ripped off.

What solution is the OP now a part of that they were not part of before ?

Another example of the type of ignorance I refer to. Folks do have control of their own destiny, but usually choose to relinquish that control for reasons having to do with the lazier aspects of human nature. Human laziness and the resulting ignorance is the lifeblood of peddlers.

[solarix]

A significant part of your high price is the cost of upgrading your service to handle this size system. Your 150A panel is an unusual size and likely very old so you are getting your electrical system renovated in addition to a new solar system.

[FFE]

To the OP (original poster, in this case msobal79), here are a few things to consider:

In California you have 3 days to back out of a contract without penalty. Next time you buy something with this option, use that time to research prices instead of after something is completed if you made an uninformed decision.

Based on the questions you posted, you probably will get a surprise on your annual true up when the power company sends you a bill for thousands of dollars. Do some research on how your power company bills and keep track of it. It is your responsibility.

Also, do some research on Time of Use options with your power company. Most likely you will increase your usage now that you have solar and this might prevent the aforementioned surprise bill.

To J.P.M.:

Let me rephrase the control statement. The OP has a much greater control over the price per kWh now that they have solar than if they didn't.

They are part of different solutions. They are reducing the carbon that is released into the atmosphere. They are reducing the peak load on the grid. This reduces the likelihood of "brown outs." There are others, but they are more controversial.

[J.P.M.]

To the OP (original poster, in this case msobal79), here are a few things to consider:

In California you have 3 days to back out of a contract without penalty. Next time you buy something with this option, use that time to research prices instead of after something is completed if you made an uninformed decision.

Based on the questions you posted, you probably will get a surprise on your annual true up when the power company sends you a bill for thousands of dollars. Do some research on how your power company bills and keep track of it. It is your responsibility.

Also, do some research on Time of Use options with your power company. Most likely you will increase your usage now that you have solar and this might prevent the aforementioned surprise bill.

To J.P.M.:

Let me rephrase the control statement. The OP has a much greater control over the price per kWh now that they have solar than if they didn't.

They are part of different solutions. They are reducing the carbon that is released into the atmosphere. They are reducing the peak load on the grid. This reduces the likelihood of "brown outs." There are others, but they are more controversial.

To your rephrase - More things to consider:

Doing research before a purchase is better than after, if for no other reason it gives more time for research. The 3 day rescission period is mostly about buyer's remorse and consumers having an out when they fall prey to the hard sell.

Unless the OP has rate making authority over the POCO, (s)he has no control over the price per kWh paid except to use less and stay in a lower tier, or stay away from prime time if on T.O.U.

Using less energy will also result in the greatest reduction in environmental impact - even more than offsetting demand via R.E.

[msobal79]

Thank you all for your input.

our monthly bills as shown in the attachments were upwards of $450. So a $63,000 system cost with monthly payments $330 after federal tax credit and an aprox 10 year ROI did not seem like a bad deal. In fact we mainly saw it as saving $120 a month on electricity and locking the price in for 10 years. After which we would have virtually free electricity for the remaining life of the system.

My main focus was on components l. I wanted to make sure I had good quality panels and inverters with Mfg warranties that matched or exceeded the solar companies warranties.

There is much more to share and I have no problem sharing my apparent misfortune if it is for the benefit of others.

Did we pay a extremelyy high premium. Yes I see that now. And yes I should have been on the forum months ago comparing system pricing with all of you.