Solar Panel System Disposal

[Lexnice]

I live in Massachusetts, and am considering having a Solar Panel System installed on my home, by Solar City. I am weighing all of their options. They propose a 6.24 KWH system with 25 panels. Right now I am paying .21/kwh to Eversource. Average monthly bill is $105. 20 year costs (if there are zero rate increases for next 20 years) would be $25,200.
#1)Purchasing the system would cost $25,594, credits would be $7678 Fed, $1000 State, $7097 SREC, then tax on incentives would be $1890 Fed, and $297 State. Bottom line would be (ideally) $12006. My worries are that I'd have to finance the entire amount, wait for tax return next year to recoup tax credits, wait to recoup SREC sale through a broker, and also how will I dispose of the solar panels and system after 20 years or so? The only other costs would be minimal monthly charges to Eversource for having an account.
#2) Full Pre Pay would cost $11,285. The only other costs would be minimal monthly charges to Eversource for having an account.
I am thinking that Full Pre Pay is the best way to go.
Any thoughts or ideas about this choice?
Thank you

[farokhboston]

If you are in MA, then financing the system thru the MA Solar Loan program, run by the state, at 1.5% for 10yrs, is a no brainer.

And why do you say that there is TAX on the incentives? I havent heard of anyone saying that the SREC's are taxed.

And who cares about how you would dispose of the system after 20 yrs. Replace the roof, and have the roofer take care of the system disposal.

[Lexnice]

Thanks for the info farokhboston.
1)As for financing through the Ma Solar Loan Program, there are income limitations, and Solar City is not on the Mass Solar Loan Installers List.
2)Yes, the tax is on the incentives according to Solar City.
3)Are you positive that roofers would dispose of solar panels, and that they're not hazardous waste?

[farokhboston]

a) There are NO income limitations, to get the 1.5% financing. The income limitations are ONLY if you are "low income" and want the state to pay 20-30% of your loan.

b) If Solar City isnt on the MA Solar Loan installer list, GET ANOTHER INSTALLER.

c) I've not heard of any calculations showing TAX on SREC sales. Will need to research this.

d) No, but I wouldnt worry about panel disposal for 20+ years.

[farokhboston]

PS: Re - Taxes

"According to one SREC aggregator’s contact with the IRS, the proceeds of SRECs should be considered an offset to the purchase of the solar energy system, and are therefore not taxable. The IRS also stated that the sale of SRECs does not fit within the transaction types that would initiate the generation of a 1099. If you are uncertain, please contact a tax professional."

If its not 1099'ed, IMHO, its not taxable...

[Amy@altE]

Get an installation quote from an installer other than SolarCity. They are notorious for high quotes for purchased systems to push people to their crappy lease. $4.10 a watt is too high, you can do better. There are some great installers here in MA, there's a reason SolarCity isn't on the MA approved list. Run away from them.

[Amy@altE]

I recommend calling multiple installers in your area from the approved installer list from MassCEC, and have them come out to do a quote for you. Ask for references, how long they have been in business, how they intend to flash the rack to prevent roof leaks, and just get a general feel for how you feel about them. Also, this forum's host has a review section for installers, you can see if they are listed there. https://www.solarreviews.com/installers

[Lexnice]

Amy, how did you arrive at the figure of $4.10 a watt?
Also, can you teach me about SREC's? Does everyone sell all of their SREC's for cash? How do you do that?
Thank you in advance.

[Amy@altE]

$25,594 / 6240W = $4.10 per watt

SRECs are handled through a 3rd party clearing house. Your system is registered with them, and they pay you quarterly per 1MWh. You have to report the numbers to them each month, either automatically or manually, depending on your equipment. The installer generally takes care of the registration for their clients, as it can get a little complicated to set up. The only reason people consider not getting SRECs is because it enables the big power producers to produce dirty energy while meeting the state mandated clean energy requirements. They are buying credit for your clean power to offset their dirty power. So technically, your clean power is enabling dirty power, for a price. If you are OK with that, then that money is there for you as part of the state's clean energy incentive, take it. I would.

[Amy@altE]

In regard to recycling the panels, many solar panel manufacturers do offer a recycling program. But your panels are expected to last around 40 years, I'm sure things will have advanced more by then.

[Lexnice]

Thank you for all of your info, Amy.

[bcroe]

In regard to recycling the panels, many solar panel manufacturers do offer a recycling program.
But your panels are expected to last around 40 years, I'm sure things will have advanced more by then.

Recycling any kind of glass is my biggest problem. There is somebody to take about anything else that I can't burn. And
there are lots of dead PV cells around, left over from earlier experiments. Maybe I could ship them somewhere? Bruce Roe

[farokhboston]

I live in Massachusetts, and am considering having a Solar Panel System installed on my home, by Solar City. I am weighing all of their options. They propose a 6.24 KWH system with 25 panels. Right now I am paying .21/kwh to Eversource. Average monthly bill is $105. 20 year costs (if there are zero rate increases for next 20 years) would be $25,200.
#1)Purchasing the system would cost $25,594, credits would be $7678 Fed, $1000 State, $7097 SREC, then tax on incentives would be $1890 Fed, and $297 State. Bottom line would be (ideally) $12006. My worries are that I'd have to finance the entire amount, wait for tax return next year to recoup tax credits, wait to recoup SREC sale through a broker, and also how will I dispose of the solar panels and system after 20 years or so? The only other costs would be minimal monthly charges to Eversource for having an account.
#2) Full Pre Pay would cost $11,285. The only other costs would be minimal monthly charges to Eversource for having an account.
I am thinking that Full Pre Pay is the best way to go.
Any thoughts or ideas about this choice?
Thank you

Lexnice,

There are many good installers. I personally went with SolarFlair, out of Ashland. You can look them up here.

They do good, quality work. They provided me with the lowest quote I could get (last year) and have been good with their processes.

[Lexnice]

Thank you for the info.
What size is your system? What was SolarFlair's cost per watt for your system? Which Solar panels did you go with? Did you go with micro inverters that mount to the underside of each panel? Did you have any extras that you added that added to the cost?
My roofing supports are trusses 24" on center. I was told that I may need more support.

[mpkelley20]

Get an installation quote from an installer other than SolarCity. They are notorious for high quotes for purchased systems to push people to their crappy lease. $4.10 a watt is too high, you can do better. There are some great installers here in MA, there's a reason SolarCity isn't on the MA approved list. Run away from them.

Way too high??!! When I did my pricing last year (system was installed in November), $4.10 was considered very low. I was getting ranges from $4 to $5.50 per watt (high was Solar City). I ended up paying $3.40 per watt through an installer I found on the mass clean energy website and NO ONE could touch those prices. I know prices are coming down but are they really that much lower today than they were a few months ago? I had installers tell me they would be losing money if they came in under $4 per watt.....

[Amy@altE]

Exactly. You ended up at $3.40 a watt, much better than $4.10. You actually got a terrific deal, I don't see many at that price. And again, SolarCity quoted much higher than every one else.

[Lexnice]

I am also considering a 6.270kw system for $21,318.00. How do I calculate how much that system is per watt?
I like their price, but their guarantees are not nearly as good as Solar City's. Anyone else have this dilemma before?

[mpkelley20]

And looks like we can name installers now. I see farokhboston listed his and I know he paid about the same as me (from a different thread). My installer was Acushnet Alternative Heating out of Acushnet, MA. They deal with solar, gas/wood/pellet stoves, heat pump heating/cooling systems and basically anything "alternative" to normal heating needs. Luke is the owner and knows more about MA solar than any of the big companies I spoke to. Most either told me blatant lies or had no clue. And it helped that my electric company (National Grid) and my town knew Luke so the process was easy.

[Lexnice]

How come your installer isn't listed in the SolarPanel Installer's reviews?

[mpkelley20]

I have no clue how installers get added there. If it's through user reviews, I guess I should probably write one! I know several others on here have used them as we all discussed it through PM when that was still active.

My installer has been doing solar since 2005. Originally he did commercial installs as residential was not exactly popular back then. When residential started to grow, he started doing it and was even hired by certain national companies as a contractor for a bit. He stopped doing that when they tried to force him to use cheaper components like racking. So now he only does installs for his own company and has his own crews. No sub contracting. I found him, as I mentioned, on the mass clean energy website which published every solar install in the state when they ran their rebate program.

[brewbeer]

Lexnice, did you say you were in Pittsfield? I live outside Springfield and just installed solar on my house. I solicited quotes from 4 locally owned companies, as keeping my business with a local company was important to me. I recommend you check out the Solar Store in Greenfield, Northeast Solar in Hatfield, PV Squared in Greenfield, and Beyond Green in Easthampton. They were all excellent and gave competitive quotes.

[Lexnice]

Why did you pick one over the other? Who did you choose? All are less money than Solar City, but None seem to have the better warranties that Solar City offers.

[rsilvers]

You should tell us the racking, panels, and inverters used for each. Then details like if the inverters will be indoors or outdoors, and where the conduit will be run.

[rsilvers]

Having just got 7 solar quotes, I see nothing that he said that makes me think $4.10 is too high without knowing more. He didn't even say what kind of panels they offered, so how can you say it is too high? What if they are 345 watt SunPower panels?

Nor do you know what kind of system was bought for $3.40 per watt. What if they are silver 240 watt polycrystalline panels with a string inverter and using L-feet without flashing and with 12 foot spreads between footings?

Dollar per watt are not comparable without knowing all of the details of the install.

SolarCity quoted me $6.40 per watt two years ago for SunPower.

[Amy@altE]

True, it could have been SunPower, which I personally feel is only occasionally worth the extra price, so again, too high in most cases. Don't get too bogged down with that statement, it is just my opinion. The main point I was making was he can't know if it was a good price or not with only one quote. My momma told me, you better shop around.

[J.P.M.]

I am also considering a 6.270kw system for $21,318.00. How do I calculate how much that system is per watt?
I like their price, but their guarantees are not nearly as good as Solar City's. Anyone else have this dilemma before?

You divide the system size in Watts, by he system price in dollars to get dollars per Watt.

[Lexnice]

so 6.270kw = 6,270, right? then take the price ($21,318) and divide by watts (6,270) to get $3.40/watt?

[rsilvers]

Yes. $3.40.

[rsilvers]

I am in MA and I asked for quotes for an 11.4kW system.

Two places quoted me over $6 per watt two years ago for SunPower, and I didn't ask for re-quotes this time.

If I bought 300 watt panels and EnPhase 250s and racking from AltE (where Amy is from), it would have cost me about $1.75 per watt for all of the parts. If I then hired people and managed them to complete the work, it would have cost me about $2.60 per watt in the end. I wanted to do that, but I called many electricians and I over-estimated people's willingness to do stuff they have never done before. Basically no one wanted to touch it. I had a friend who I could hire and he was willing to do it all, but he is not licensed, and my local electrical inspector and building inspector refused to give me home-owner permits. No inspection, no interconnect. So Amy can blame the local government and electrical unions for killing my self-install.

The place that farokhboston used quoted me $3.60 for 285 watt SolarWorld panels and Enphase (more than farokhbostn paid for some reason - I think I am taxed based on my neighborhood), but I have limited roof area, and so didn't want that. They said they could do 320 watt SunPower for $4.30. I didn't want that price. I could have tried to get them to match the $3.40 that their other customers paid, but I didn't bother because needed higher efficiency panels to get as close to my power needs as possible, within reason, which I determined was best done with LG panels.

A highly-rated installer in the review section quoted me $3.90 for 315 watt LG. They seemed very competent. I wanted a better price.

A place in Plymouth that I called that seemed like mostly a one-guy operation quoted $4 a watt. No reason to pick them over the highly-rated place.

Another place that did a big install near me - I didn't want to waste their time if they would quote high, so I scheduled a phone appointment. They never called, so I scratched them off the list.

I asked for a quote on a larger (70 panel) system for the place I ended up going with - over 20kW. They quoted $3.45 per watt for LG315 or $3.48 per watt for LG320 with two SolarEdge SE10000s. That also includes indoor inverters and indoor conduit and six strings - so it is a complex install and not simply putting up a matrix of panels in one area. This also includes a line-side tap and an expedited (more expensive) application for net-metering. While I was hoping to get Arizona prices, I seemed like this was as low as I was going to get in MA for modules I actually wanted, so I said yes. The strong incentives in MA seem to be making installers keep their prices high. Basically they are structuring their prices to take part of the incentives from the buyer.

[Amy@altE]

Excellent summary of your experience. We certainly see different areas and different authorities have completely differing requirements for home installations, even within the same state. Authority Having Jurisdiction is always right, even when they are wrong. Your system is larger than average, I can see where it might be intimidating for some tradesmen who have never done solar before to jump in as their first install. It looks like you ended up with a great system, a great installer, and great payback time. I call this a huge solar success story.

[Lexnice]

So who did you go with to install your solar system?

[rsilvers]

Bay State Solar.