Solar Installation in CT - DIY and could use some help along the way.

[bryankloos]

I've been reading, researching, gathering quotes and talking with my local inspector and POCO. After much deliberation I'm leaning towards a self purchased DIY install with an ~17kW roof mount system.

My quotes (not even going to mention the PPA quotes) have all been about $4.20/watt installed pre incentives, which net me ~$2.70/watt.

Looking online the systems available will cost me somewhere around $1.75/watt plus permits and application fees. I'm aiming for about $1.30/watt after credits.

I need to reroof the house and I'm told I can submit the percentage of the roofing costs which are under panels as part of the installation.

So, the plan now is to find a roofer who will also do the flash foot install while up on the roof as the penetrations would be covered in case of leaks down the road. I'll do the panel install, wiring, and grid tie in. Should be pretty simple... Or so I think.

What I'd like to get from you all is some help and guidance so I keep thinks on track and moving forward with as few steps backwards as possible.

One issue is that for my interconnect application, I will need PE to stamp the plans, which include structural analysis of the roof framing. I'm looking for a PE to inquire about costs and hope to find an affordable solution.

My local inspector is fine with me taking on the project as long as I submit appropriate plans and specs. I plan to go to the inspectors office and review some of the recent installs in town relative to the plans and have a hunch people are using the templates available online through energizeCT.

http://www.energizect.com/sites/defa...ide%20v1.0.pdf

Hopefully I can also find a few names of PEs who are submitting plan review as I assume the local companies are using the same plans for both the local inspector and the POCO application.

The system as of now will be west facing on a 32 degree roof, about 54 panels. I'm hoping to use the LG320N1C1 panels with either emphases micro inverters or solar edge optimizes and 2 basement mounted solar edge inverters, probably both 7600 watt. The system will be grid tied with line side connections. Iron ridge xr100 racking with roof penetrations for wiring through a solo deck. The array will be on two roofs, one with 42 panels stories up and the second with 12 panels on a slightly lower roof. I'll have individual panel monitoring per the system to keep track of performance and, well, I like web based toys.

I'm curious what people think regarding optimizers vs micro inverters? I like the fact that the micro inverters have a 25 year warranty whereas the solaredge inverters seem to go about 12 years out...

All this said, what am I missing, what am I doing right?

All help is appreciated.

Thanks

Bryan

[farokhboston]

"I'll do the panel install, wiring, and grid tie in. Should be pretty simple... Or so I think. "

Good luck, & god bless.

It took 5 guys over 1 1/2 days to install ~30 panels on my roof, for a system that is HALF your size (about 8.2 KW), and these are Pro's.

Each panel is 50lbs+. You want to haul them up onto your roof, by yourself?

I was also "tempted" by the cost difference to try and somehow "project manage" my installation myself (there was a $10k difference between using my installer, and just getting the panels etc and DIY), but then I'd have to hire roofers/installers etc, as well as electricians etc.

In the end, I have a 5yr payback with my Installer installed system, vs 4yrs for DIY (with hiring help/roofers), but with a 25yr payout for my system, and everything (ie, all the work) warrantied, that works for me.

[sensij]

A couple things... you should really talk to a tax guy about roofing costs. People say a lot of things, but there is IRS guidance that suggests a more stringent set of requirements to hit.

That is a high, steep-ish roof. Yeah, you'll save some money upfront, but it won't seem like much if something goes wrong.

That is a really big residential system, although if you are fitting 42 panels on one roof face, it must be a big house, too. With either micros or optimizers, think about how you will be able to service the panel level electronics if (when) they fail. If you have three or more rows of panels, will you have to pull good panels out of the way to get to the bad ones? My SolarEdge system works well for me (with 12 panels), but as systems get larger, I would lean toward a Fronius inverter.

[bryankloos]

The reason for wanting to do the work myself, other than financial is that I like working on my home. I generally do all the mechanical work on my house (and houses past) and I've learned a lot along the way. I am extremely handy, have the tools, the time, and the ability to learn. I've done a gut renovation of basement from framing to finish including plumbing and full electrical. I've also done a full service (100 to 200A) upgrade which was coordinated with the POCO and the local inspector. I know this is a big project, but I think I can tackle it.

I will install safety lines on the roof to keep any slips from causing catastrophic incident. I will use an electric hoist to get the panels on the roof, and I will have the help of a couple friends who are familiar with roofing and have experience being on roofs. The wiring, to be honest seems very simple, and I'm not too worried about that.

I use about 19000kWh currently, as I have a 3400 sq ft house with a pool, 2 AC condensers (3, and 3.5 ton) and an electric clothes dryer. PV watts has me just about even with approximately 17kW worth of solar on the roof. This lines up with the systems which have been designed by the installers who have looked at my usage and my roof.

Just some numbers:

Break even point with an installed system is 11-12 years. Doing it myself I'm under 5 years. With a western facing exposure, I have adequate but limited light on the roof. This is why my payback is higher than what many in SOCAL might see. The install costs here are also relatively high compared to other geographies. The overall savings are significant to me, and knowing that I will put the saved funds into an aggressive growth brokerage fund for future college costs means the extra 5ish years of savings will have a big impact on total fund growth when I need it 18 years from now...

[SunEagle]

The reason for wanting to do the work myself, other than financial is that I like working on my home. I generally do all the mechanical work on my house (and houses past) and I've learned a lot along the way. I am extremely handy, have the tools, the time, and the ability to learn. I've done a gut renovation of basement from framing to finish including plumbing and full electrical. I've also done a full service (100 to 200A) upgrade which was coordinated with the POCO and the local inspector. I know this is a big project, but I think I can tackle it.

I will install safety lines on the roof to keep any slips from causing catastrophic incident. I will use an electric hoist to get the panels on the roof, and I will have the help of a couple friends who are familiar with roofing and have experience being on roofs. The wiring, to be honest seems very simple, and I'm not too worried about that.

I use about 19000kWh currently, as I have a 3400 sq ft house with a pool, 2 AC condensers (3, and 3.5 ton) and an electric clothes dryer. PV watts has me just about even with approximately 17kW worth of solar on the roof. This lines up with the systems which have been designed by the installers who have looked at my usage and my roof.

Just some numbers:

Break even point with an installed system is 11-12 years. Doing it myself I'm under 5 years. With a western facing exposure, I have adequate but limited light on the roof. This is why my payback is higher than what many in SOCAL might see. The install costs here are also relatively high compared to other geographies. The overall savings are significant to me, and knowing that I will put the saved funds into an aggressive growth brokerage fund for future college costs means the extra 5ish years of savings will have a big impact on total fund growth when I need it 18 years from now...

Just a hint about the DC wiring for pv panels. If you are making the terminations using an MC4 connector or something similar you really need to make sure you have the proper crimping tool and follow the procedure step by step. One of the biggest issues found even by "professional" installers was that the connector was not terminated properly and came apart with a simple tug.

For a DIY I would recommend focusing on the details concerning electrical wiring sizing, routing, terminations, and over current protection and you will end up with a quality installation.

And as always my 1st, 2nd and 3rd rule is to do it all safely.

[bryankloos]

I visited the building Inspector and viewed a few permit applications for solar installation. Seems they all have a PE stamped engineering analysis. I took down the names of the PEs who did the analysis and have reached out regarding their willingness to work up my plans. I'm waiting to hear back from them.

This was good field research as I know the POCO requires the PE stamp. Seems, while the building inspector does not need the stamped evaluation of roofing structure, the same plans submitted for the POCO are being used for the building permit application.

Hopefully I hear back from one of these PEs, as they seem hard to find through google searches...

[grywlfbg]

With west-facing exposure you can safely undersize your inverter by 30%+ compared to nameplate panel output. So 2 x 6kW string inverters or 250W Enphase micros. If you have some shading that varies during the day then micros can get you the most output but as sensij noted you'll need to have a plan for accessing the panels for service. String inverters are much easier to service in that respect.

[rsilvers]

Panels are more like 38lbs.

I wonder if any of us would be happy to keep today's panels for 25 years when in 8 years we see 600 watt panels out for $139 each.

[Amy@altE]

I've been selling solar equipment to home owners for over 8 years. I look at some of my first sales, and grid tie solar panels were about $4.50 a watt (and that was a 175W panel). Now they are about $0.90 a watt for 300W panels. Crazy how much the price has come down and efficiency has gone up!

[rsilvers]

I don't think you need to pay more than $300 for a PE if you basically write the letter for them and just ask them to review/edit and stamp it. I did some calculations myself, notated my roof specs, and wrote a letter.

Note that Iron Ridge will provide you with the stamped letter from a PE in your state.

[J.P.M.]

I don't think you need to pay more than $300 for a PE if you basically write the letter for them and just ask them to review/edit and stamp it. I did some calculations myself, notated my roof specs, and wrote a letter.

Note that Iron Ridge will provide you with the stamped letter from a PE in your state.

Depends on how involved the project is. Depending on location, the going rate around here (CA) is ~ 250/hr. or negotiable.

[rsilvers]

My building department said a letter was fine and no drawings were needed. I was going to submit drawings anyway, but prepared by me, not an engineer. There is a lot that one can copy and paste from the websites of the manufacturers. But yeah, if your area requires more work, then it will cost real money.

[bcroe]

I've been reading, researching, gathering quotes and talking with my local inspector and POCO.
After much deliberation I'm leaning towards a self purchased DIY install with an ~17kW roof mount system.

All this said, what am I missing, what am I doing right? Bryan

You have the potential to save a huge amount of $. My system is on that scale. I think, a first time DIY would be
a lot less problematic as a ground mount. Bruce Roe

[rsilvers]

Totally. A ground mount would eliminate the building inspector and engineer. It would also allow one to do a lot of self-wiring before they even called an electrician to pull a permit - which could save thousands. Whereas on a roof, there is no way I could put it all together before calling the electrician and pulling the electrical permit because the building inspector shares an office with the electrical inspector. Further, the electrician would not be able to inspect your work on the roof once the panels were in place. And also, even if you hired someone to assemble it, they would not need to be a licensed building contractor as my inspector is requiring. So I could get someone for $20-$50 an hour rather than $100-$200 an hour. That being said, while we have physical space for a ground mount, my wife is not going for it.

[ButchDeal]

Totally. A ground mount would eliminate the building inspector and engineer. It would also allow one to do a lot of self-wiring before they even called an electrician to pull a permit - which could save thousands. Whereas on a roof, there is no way I could put it all together before calling the electrician and pulling the electrical permit because the building inspector shares an office with the electrical inspector. Further, the electrician would not be able to inspect your work on the roof once the panels were in place. And also, even if you hired someone to assemble it, they would not need to be a licensed building contractor as my inspector is requiring. So I could get someone for $20-$50 an hour rather than $100-$200 an hour. That being said, while we have physical space for a ground mount, my wife is not going for it.

In many areas ground mount needs structural permit as well as electrical, with foundation inspections etc.

[DaveDE2]

With either micros or optimizers, think about how you will be able to service the panel level electronics if (when) they fail. If you have three or more rows of panels, will you have to pull good panels out of the way to get to the bad ones? My SolarEdge system works well for me (with 12 panels), but as systems get larger, I would lean toward a Fronius inverter.

Agree.
I'm doing a 13kW DIY system, 51 panels, 3 rows of 17 panels and the thought of removing a good panel to get to bad electronics seems like a pain, or any panel for that matter. With such a large system, do I really want to do that time and again over the coarse of the life of the system when I'm a middle age, getting older guy, or do I want a relatively clean electronics-free system that I shouldn't have to deal with (on the roof)? I totally get your enthusiasm about per panel monitoring though, that would be very cool. For me, it's going to be limited to string monitoring, four of them. In any case, good luck, DIY installation is fun!