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I hope you are not talking about their TileTrac for S Shape tile. There's NONE flashing, just roof sealant. I'm sure this is one of the cheapest mounting for S Shape tile with lowest labor. What other mounts have you done in your 15 yrs experience?
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We use mostly fast jacks with double flashings on tile roofs. And by the way, tile tracs do come with their own flashings. But before the flashings were supplied, we were taught that a correct installation was to first seal the base and don't miss the rafter, fill in around the all thread where it passes through the tile with a sealant that can handle the dissimilar expansion and contraction of the steel and tile, place a ss fender washer over that then thread an extra ss nut all of the way down tight over the washer and cover that with more sealant. most people would skip that step because they were too cheap to go and buy the extra ss washer and nut. Tile trac has been around longer than any other type of mounting and for a reason. Yes it is an easier installation, unless you perform the extra steps described above. No, they are not cheap and out of the thousands installed correctly we and many others have no leaks so far.
I have literally tried them all. From L feet, to hooks under tile and even the QM crap that is out there now. In the end Pro solar is the strongest and the FJ allows for higher module placement on the roof using flashings that are approved by roofing code, and has always had 120 mph wind rating. Up until recent code changes the other racking systems were at a whopping 85 mph rated. We give the choice to the customer on tile roofs. You do the math, on s tile with two aluminum flashings per standoff and the tile cuts can be a bit more expensive by comparison. Standard warranty is ten years either way for most installers out there. Most installs that we see leak are standoffs on tile roofs with only one flashing and not a proper sealing technique at the base. In the end the main reason that ProSolar is preferred is due to the height of the module from the roof that can be achieved with the wind load rating.Comment
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DSC00750.JPG I would have used a bit more sealant at the flashing on the top and we definitely seal the base differently. When we seal any base to the underlayment, first the underlayment is either swept, blown or vacuumed. Then we use a spray bottle and mist the underlayment then wipe clean with a cloth rag. After a few minutes when dry we apply the sealant to the base of the mount, (enough to push out on all sides). Then we either (with latex glove covered), fingers or a special trowel push the sealant against the base of the mount and into the underlayment. I could only find a pic of a fast jack for reference. The process is the same no matter what you use as an attachment. The thing with tile roofs is not so much the seal at the tile that causes leaks, it is the seal at the base of the standoff. The tile seal is not subject to direct sunlight or heavy rain, notice it is at the top of the curve. (flat tile requires If the lag is secure in the rafter and tight that mount should last. In the end, it always falls back on the installation technique.Comment
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I would agree on installation quality especially the person who does the installation job. I have spent my time search for a reputable installer and I found one. The company is base at San Diego area with over 10 yrs of experience on solar. All the review were good with A+ rating. BUT, the review did not really help me because solar were installed by individual, not the company. The company has good service and I have to agree, but the job/workers not so....
Two inverters replacement within 4 months, water in J-Box....and few other details, I would not believe this is an A+ rating company. I'm not here to bashing the company anyway.
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I understand you are not here to blast them, me either and I don't need to know who either. I see water filled Jboxes all of the time and they are always plastic and should be metal. It is also not code to use plastic conduit on the roof, so it boggles my mind why it is ok for anything plastic allowed, due to the sun's degradation of the plastic and warping of the lid. Simply El Cheapo IMO. If that system is under warranty you might ask them remove all of the plastic on your roof. It will keep failing. Most of the time the companies will drill a few weep holes to let the water drain out. This is only a temporary fix. I am curious, is there a seal in between the conduit fitting and the box? And conduit fittings have to be UL listed for raintight applications also it should be stamped on the fitting. And there should be a seal at the strain relief on the other side as well. If not then, the leak is probably at the connection to the box. Water will follow the conduit down to the fitting and weep inside of the box at the connection point, or in some cases it will actually be coming into the box through the conduit from leaky or improper conduit fittings. I understand why you are here now, thanks for the pictures, they tell the whole story. At least they used the correct wire connectors in the box instead of wire nuts. I am curious what the reason for the inverter failures were if not for what I am seeing in this picture. Did you see any error codes? What was the reason given for the failure and what brand / type are your inverters? The DC strings should have a fuse in between the modules and inverters for protection in a proper design. I am also curious to know how are the modules grounded? I ask because I am seeing newer grounding systems with the integrated racking module grounding at the middle clamps causing problems and intermittent ground fault errors with inverters, and especially in coastal regions where exposed to the salty air. I attached a pic of what happens when conduit gets filled with water.You do not have permission to view this gallery.
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Long story....
I have SMA SB6000TL-US-12 inverter with 26 panels of Bosch NA42117 255W running in 2 strings of 13 panels. The system was running good until weather get hot (Dec installation). This inverter has very narrow operation voltage range with min voltage of 345V. When weather get hot over 38C to 39C, the output start to decrease because of the voltage drop. After I did the research found the issue and contact installer and they told me they need to observe the system over 12 months of period to confirm the issue. I was like what ??.... Anyway, I come up with an idea to add one panel to each string to bring up the voltage and pay installer $2000 (parts/labor, I know it is not a good deal but...) Finally the installation was completed and power on the inverter, I immediately see the instantaneous output at about 3kW at noon time with full sun. I told the guys that is not normal, but they say they will check on it. This low output last for an hour or so and inverter shut down with message "disturbance AFCI". It took the installer about 2 weeks to replace the inverter and everything is back to normal. After about 2 to 3 months, inverter die again. This time is without any warning or message on inverter. This time it took about a month and finally got the inverter replaced again. I ask why the system fail again, but they have no idea. Once might be an accident, but not twice. I decided to go up to the roof the 1st and check it out. Then I found water in J-Box, cheap mounting, broken tiles....etc. All I can said is disappointed. I even referral my neighbor for the company on his 8.5kW system. They have came twice to replace and inspect the solar, how can they not spot the problems? Each time they send different guys (the old one were left the company X2) I don't know anything about solar installation, but I can find the water in J Box?? This isn't making any sense, what kind of people were they hired for my solar job? I tried not to think about this anymore.......I even give them cash for the hard work, Fark
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I took some time and ran your system through the SMA Sunny Design software for 26 and 28 modules. All green checks but the performance ratio was a little lower with 2 strings of 14 but still looks good. Thinking about what you are describing as far as voltage drop. A few things come to my mind. I would want to check and make sure that the MC connectors were properly installed and or connected tightly at the string home runs and at all of the modules depending on the VOC readings. Installing these connectors requires a specific type of crimping tool that if not used can cause problems. Or at worse case, are any of the modules in either or both strings defective, this also could be a possibility if the MC connections all check out and the string VOC is not what it should be. Or there may be a cut or nick in the wire insulation that is causing a short inside of the conduit, this can be an intermittent problem if the arc is small enough. (I see this frequently) And could be caused when the conduit and wire get hot as they both expand, sometimes just enough to create a small arc. It seems like you are showing at noon about half of the production that you should be seeing. Water in the j box is a concern and could be a problem however I saw no evidence of burning in the picture, but that does not mean that the connections are tightened correctly. Note that they did use a proper connection with a direct burial connector instead of a wire nut. For AFCI fault, that usually indicates a loose or faulty connection somewhere in the circuit in my experience. I am not sure why they used the TL-12, unless this was installed before the TL-22 was available. If you still have a warranty from your installer they should at least check all of their connections from the main to the modules and replace the plastic boxes with metal boxes. Also I am wondering how the modules were grounded. Does each module have a ground lug installed on it with a bare copper wire connecting all of them together with the racking, before entering the j box? Or did they use the integrated grounding method with the ground attached to the module mid clamps? The integrated grounding will only have the bare copper wire attached to the racking rails before entering the j box. I think there might be more than one issue there and all of the wire connections should be checked first. Then each string should be tested in full sunlight for their open circuit voltage. Sunny Boys do not just fail for no reason, they are very robust units.Comment
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The TL-US-22 weren't available at time of installation. Look out for min DC voltage with 2 x 13 panels. The ground copper wire were attached to the racking rails before enter J Box.
I haven't see any panels were taking off for wire connection check when the guys were here. All they did is testing the voltage down at inverter ground level.Comment
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The minimum voltage on the string design at 2x13 was a little low but still got the green light on the string design and 2x14 was better but just over the 345V, the min pv voltage at 355V using the following parameters. I put the azimuth at true south, 17 degree pitch and used the temp values at 32 coldest, 84 average and 104 highest and the distance from the modules to inverter at 80 feet using #10 AWG wire, as I did not know the actual install parameters. If the install is different from that then your results will be different and the values may be lower than what I saw on the string design. OK the grounding is integrated type. They must have come to the conclusion that the string operating and open circuit voltage was within parameters and if they tested the operating current that it was within range. However, based on what you say your production was at noon, that indicates to me that there are losses from the modules to the inverter as the min inverter range is narrow. I would think at noon you would see almost double the production reported. The module connections usually can be visually inspected for a correct contact with each other. I would look at the MC connections that had to be field installed first. When the inverter is operating, what are the values that you are seeing on the screen? DC voltage etc.Comment
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They are working fine for over an year now. I think the inverter fail is due to the connector issue, the error is right after adding 2 more panels to the arrays. The J Box full with water might be during the panel addition, the guy pressure on J Box forcing the conduit not sitting correctly that might cause the 2nd failure without any error code. The guys they send over for panel addition weren't doing the good job. I saw they sitting/laying on top of the solar panel while installing the stand offs. I hope the panel can handle their body weight.....Comment
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They must have done something to fix it, that is good. Although it is not recommended, you can lean on modules but the weight displacement should be on the frame where it attaches to the rail. An AFCI error would not necessarily have anything to do with adding more modules. That error is an arc fault error. They probably tightened the connections if they found one or two that were not properly torqued.Comment
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It's been four years and I haven't had any issues with the roof. We don't get constant rain but we've definitely been through a few rainy seasons. I had the roofers do the sealing and I'm happy with that choice. Per my earlier posts, they're reputable, experienced, experts in the materials and with solar mounts, and have been in business locally for 35+ years. Done this way the whole roof is covered by their warranty, with no worries about finger pointing if something does come up. The solar installers also upped the warranty on their portion of the work since it was more straightforward for them.
The solar installers came by while the roof was down stripped down to the deck and installed the anchors. The roofers then put down the new bitumen layers, sealing as they do for all penetrations. They applied sealant + an extra layer of bitumen (in addition to the normal 3-layer solution) + a prepped aluminum flashing.
Here's a photo with some of the points -- bare flashing not pictured (didn't have my camera with me at the time, but it was about the same as the flashings for the various vent pipes etc).
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