Enphase M215 max power 225w ugh?

[mike6116]

Wanted to open this thread to give some continuity to my comments on this other thread where i was told not to be aware of the enphase M215 maximum power output wich is 215watts with 225 peak power, any above that the inverter will start clipping

Well on that very same thread i commented there are reports of users having their inverters shooting out more than 225 max power with out any clipping at all, an im one of them


Today i want to show some screenshots where it can show inverter going up to 230watts

This is a 6 panel system with M215 inverters

All comments welcome

[silversaver]

The Envoy isn't a revenue-grade meter, so little +/- is pretty common. Just like SolarEdge monitoring showing higher output on its system

[thejq]

Wanted to open this thread to give some continuity to my comments on this other thread where i was told not to be aware of the enphase M215 maximum power output wich is 215watts with 225 peak power, any above that the inverter will start clipping

Well on that very same thread i commented there are reports of users having their inverters shooting out more than 225 max power with out any clipping at all, an im one of them


Today i want to show some screenshots where it can show inverter going up to 230watts

This is a 6 panel system with M215 inverters

All comments welcome

I'm not familiar with Envoy's displays, but I think you might be looking at the DC wattage. After conversion to AC, the wattage should be about 96% which is the efficiency. SolarEdge's per-panel display does the same thing. See attached. If you add up all the per-panel wattage, it comes to 4623 W. But the AC output as shown is 4453 which is about 96.x% efficiency at the moment. I don't think it's in Enphase's best interest to run the inverter above spec -- since you didn't pay for it.

[MikeInRialto]

I spoke to a tech at Enphase and was told that M215 were good up to 275 watt panels unless you are in an area that gets very cold (snow). Remember, a panel is normally not going to see 80% of nametag rating. In fact, if you go on the Enphase website they have M215 listed up to 280 watt panels. Another member, about a year ago, posted his output where it looked like the M215's were clipping with 275 watt panels - I'm now convinced that the panels themselves were maxed out for the sun & temp they were seeing.

[sdold]

I think I am beginning to understand why Enphase didn't want everyone to have panel level monitoring

[J.P.M.]

I think I am beginning to understand why Enphase didn't want everyone to have panel level monitoring

I little knowledge can be dangerous for some and frustrating for others at the same time.

[thejq]

I spoke to a tech at Enphase and was told that M215 were good up to 275 watt panels unless you are in an area that gets very cold (snow). Remember, a panel is normally not going to see 80% of nametag rating. In fact, if you go on the Enphase website they have M215 listed up to 280 watt panels. Another member, about a year ago, posted his output where it looked like the M215's were clipping with 275 watt panels - I'm now convinced that the panels themselves were maxed out for the sun & temp they were seeing.

I think you misunderstood OP's question. You can pair M215 with any panel you like, including > 275W. The OP was wondering if the M215 was capable of outputting more than 225W AC which is the manufacture published spec, since he saw the per-panel wattage at 230W sometimes.

[sensij]

I'm not familiar with Envoy's displays, but I think you might be looking at the DC wattage. After conversion to AC, the wattage should be about 96% which is the efficiency. SolarEdge's per-panel display does the same thing. See attached. If you add up all the per-panel wattage, it comes to 4623 W. But the AC output as shown is 4453 which is about 96.x% efficiency at the moment. I don't think it's in Enphase's best interest to run the inverter above spec -- since you didn't pay for it.

You've misunderstood the data the the SolarEdge display is showing. Although the panels are probably showing DC power (the optimizers have no knowledge of what the inverter is doing), and the inverter is probably showing AC power, any relationship to conversion efficiency is almost entirely coincidental. The optimizers do not report simultaneously... in fact, they are somewhat random in their update rate (see the SolarEdge patent for an explanation of why). On a typical day, a single optimizer might update its output in as short a time as 1 min, or in the case of a typical day on my 12 panel system, as long as 13 minutes. It is not deterministic, and the snapshot of data shown on the portal is a mix of fresh and increasingly stale data.

The inverter updates regularly at 5 min intervals, so even the relationship of timing between the inverter and any particular panel is unpredictable. However, the relatively faster update rate of the inverter means that in a typical clear day, the sum of the panel power may lag the inverter power in the morning, as the power is increasing and the stale data drags down the panel sum, while in the afternoon, the panel sum may be higher than the inverter, because the stale data was closer to solar noon.

Here is an example from my system this week... in the morning, inverter output is greater than panels (panel sum = 1383.83 W, inverter = 1387.47)
tc-morning.JPG


In the afternoon, inverter output is less than the panels (2473.84 W from panels, 2459.31 W from the inverter) :


tc-afternoon.JPG


Sort of interestingly, when I scanned through a couple of points on thejq's system, I didn't actually find a point in which the inverter output was higher than the panel sum, like I find regularly on mine (in the mornings). Like most things, there is probably more going on than a superficial evaluation can explain.

[thejq]

Sort of interestingly, when I scanned through a couple of points on thejq's system, I didn't actually find a point in which the inverter output was higher than the panel sum, like I find regularly on mine (in the mornings). Like most things, there is probably more going on than a superficial evaluation can explain.

That's interesting. My per-panel sum (DCW) is always more than the inverter output (ACW) which sort of make sense. I can't explain why yours behaves differently. Maybe it has something to do with the update rate as you mentioned -- more mysteries to be solved .

[mike6116]

I little knowledge can be dangerous for some and frustrating for others at the same time.

Many have the fear to ask if they dont know, many others prefer not to know because they will be asked, then many more like the power to own the "true" but a few ones dont fear to know and prefer to be asken and dont believe on the "true" owners because they dont know it all they just pretend to...and thats is what scares me the most

[sdold]

Many have the fear to ask if they dont know, many others prefer not to know because they will be asked, then many more like the power to own the "true" but a few ones dont fear to know and prefer to be asken and dont believe on the "true" owners because they dont know it all they just pretend to...and thats is what scares me the most

If the spec on the inverter is 225W, and you are reading 230W, that's only about 2% different and I'd be surprised if the measurement accuracy is better than 5%. I wouldn't worry for a second about seeing 230W.

[bvmm]

Today i want to show some screenshots where it can show inverter going up to 230watts

Nice!

I've got 40 M215's and like you they will report around 225W if the conditions are good. Based on 2+ years of data, the peak power per M215 is generally 226W or 227W. The M215's are matched to 250W panels, and they will show occasional clipping (per the attached figure). The sum of the per-inverter power (i.e., energy) generally is a good match with the system reported energy.

[MikeInRialto]

Nice!

I've got 40 M215's and like you they will report around 225W if the conditions are good. Based on 2+ years of data, the peak power per M215 is generally 226W or 227W. The M215's are matched to 250W panels, and they will show occasional clipping (per the attached figure). The sum of the per-inverter power (i.e., energy) generally is a good match with the system reported energy.

Really think that is your PANELS maxing out and not the inverters - if you are getting 225w that is 90% of nameplate. If you had M250's I'm betting that your output wouldn't be any higher.

[sensij]

Really think that is your PANELS maxing out and not the inverters - if you are getting 225w that is 90% of nameplate. If you had M250's I'm betting that your output wouldn't be any higher.

Panels don't max out. Give them 1200 W/m2 of irradiance, and all else being equal, they would output 120% of nameplate rating.

[MikeInRialto]

Panels don't max out. Give them 1200 W/m2 of irradiance, and all else being equal, they would output 120% of nameplate rating.

I think we are talking about real world application - how many days within a calander year have your panels seen over 80% of nameplate?