Feedback on Proposals in Orange County, CA

[ButchDeal]

Enlighten service is free, it was a paid service on the past, but it has been served for free at least since 2014 so right now is a free service as i stated.

On the specs side, yes you are right(talking on a specs side) but on the real world all people who has an enphase M215 or M250 does know their inverters run way up their specs my M215 run at 1 hour peak of 230 watts during winter where cold weather and clear sky conditions are true and this is happening without any clipping issue, also there are so many reports about going above 225w with the m215´s so thats why the recomended panels range are 190 - 270 W taken from specs page so a 280 w panel is not away from spec, and then you have to take the degradation factor over the 1st year of the panel itself.

sorry base monitoring is free or included in the cost of the envoy for enphase.

The micros are not rated to handle any more and if you look at the micros enphase has changed the recomendations for the M215 over the years but any of the specs and tried to claim that some clipping is good for you....
With their new inverters this seems like less of an issue and really I can't see why anyone would push an M215 for a 280W module anyway. The savings in initial cost is minimal especially when you consider the up front incentives.
My cost difference is $13.50 after federal incentive that is $9.45 each, in the above example he has 27 modules so for $255, would have 6.75kw inverter VS 5.8kw inverter to handle the 7.56kw of modules.

[sensij]

Here is a real system on PVOutput.org using M215's. It clips at 6300 W, which is 225 W * 28 panels.

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=29227&sid=26783&dt=20140511

[mike6116]

Are you sure about that? Enphase panel level monitoring *used* to require an annual subscription, but it currently is a one-time fee of $249 for panel level access throughout the life of the system.

http://www2.enphase.com/enlighten_content/enlighten-activation-enlmngr-cc/

With respect to the clipping limits, no idea where mike6116 came up with those numbers. It is clear when reviewing the output on PVOutput.org that what Butchdeal cited is correct.

MyEnlighten is free and the enlighten panel level acces has a one time fee(for home owners) as you stated, again its free for solar professionals and also if the user registers as a DIY then you get the free site level access as well

Altought MyEnlighten will give any user the very same info as any other string inverter system will do, but for those who want panel level access there is Enlighten service that can be run free also if you register as a DIY

[ButchDeal]

Altought MyEnlighten will give any user the very same info as any other string inverter system will do, but for those who want panel level access there is Enlighten service that can be run free also if you register as a DIY

Generally the installer registers the system so you will not be able to register it as a DIY after the installer has it registered.
As for same as any other string inverter, most don't have any monitoring included though SMA and Fronius have added some rather basic monitoring to their new systems. Neither is particularly easy to set up with open sites like PVOutput, though they will likely be there soon.

SolarEdge on the other hand has a nicer interface and module level free for live, everything included, easy access to pvoutput as well.

[mike6116]

Generally the installer registers the system so you will not be able to register it as a DIY after the installer has it registered.
As for same as any other string inverter, most don't have any monitoring included though SMA and Fronius have added some rather basic monitoring to their new systems. Neither is particularly easy to set up with open sites like PVOutput, though they will likely be there soon.

SolarEdge on the other hand has a nicer interface and module level free for live, everything included, easy access to pvoutput as well.

If the installer registers the system, then the owner gets free access for life on Myenlighten wich is the "basic" service that i state it give you the same info as others "complete services" like SMA/Fronius and also same info than pvwatts, in a much likely graphical user interface and also access to all the historical data your system has reported since go live.

As "complete services" i reffer to the detail of info they can provide, because only micro inverter systems could go deph to panel level monitoring

[mike6116]

Im attaching a screenshot of my system where right now it shows 1 inverter at 233 watts and another at 220 so there you can see they go above 225 this is a 6 M215 array with 265w panels

As you can see on the list there are 2 different part numbers on the inverters 800-00247-r02 where bought on October 2015 and 800-00351-r02 where bought on december they have not the same physical aspect as the newer ones have a black plastic cover on the backside as the 247 have all alumnium cover

the 247´s where the first to run a week before the 351´s because of missing parts on the panel mounts thats why they dont have the same lifetime energy value

[ButchDeal]

because only micro inverter systems could go deph to panel level monitoring

This is the point and wrong. SolarEdge (optimizer system) has module level monitoring complete and for life....

you can get reports on any individual module etc.

[ButchDeal]

just for fun, here is a graph of a single module/optimizer on a system with SolarWorld 285W BoW modules on a cool breezy day with cloud edge spikes to 305w

[J.P.M.]

just for fun, here is a graph of a single module/optimizer on a system with SolarWorld 285W BoW modules on a cool breezy day with cloud edge spikes to 305w

Butch: how is the temp. determined, and where is the measured location/point ?

Thanx,

J.P.M.

[ButchDeal]

Butch: how is the temp. determined, and where is the measured location/point ?

Thanx,

J.P.M.

SolarEdge has the capacity to have local temp sensors and pyronomiters. We generally do not put them in on our residential installs though and this example I attached does not have one.
They pull Temperature, Wind speed, and humidity from zip code meterological data. It is very helpful to me to determine what might be causing issues as we monitor systems in Minnesota over the winter....
like this one where the performance tanked at the snow event on 2/2/16 but temperature hasn't gotten much above freezing till today.

here is the link for their environmental sensors that are supported on the monitoring site as well:
http://www.solaredge.com/files/pdfs/..._datasheet.pdf

Found the manual and it mentions:

"Weather data is gathered from a weather station near the installation site so might not reflect exact weather on the site itself."

http://www.solaredge.com/files/pdfs/solaredge-monitoring-portal-user-guide.pdf

[mike6116]

This is the point and wrong. SolarEdge (optimizer system) has module level monitoring complete and for life....

you can get reports on any individual module etc.

Dont mean to start a discussion here, but solaredge module level monitoring is only available if you buy the optimizer wich is arround 70-80 a piece,and you need one for each panel, so in your scenario the optimizer cost is arround $1,610

With an enphase system you only need an envoy 450-550 tops and it will work for as many panels your system has.

[sensij]

Dont mean to start a discussion here, but solaredge module level monitoring is only available if you buy the optimizer wich is arround 70-80 a piece,and you need one for each panel, so in your scenario the optimizer cost is arround $1,610

With an enphase system you only need an envoy 450-550 tops and it will work for as many panels your system has.

You aren't looking at the total picture.

Assume 27 panels, 280 W each (7560 W)

SolarEdge System
7600 W inverter = $1564.18
+
27 optimizers - $65.90 / ea = $1779.30
=
$3343.48 Total

Enphase System
27 M250's - $167.67 / ea = $4392.09
or
27 M215's - $131.25 / ea = $3543.75
+
Envoy = $480
+
Envoy Adapter = $34
+
Enlighten Manager = $249
=
$5155.09 total
or
$4306.75 total

So, tell me again which system is less expensive?

All prices above are from a single online retail distributor. Installers should have access to better pricing, but for a system of this size, SolarEdge should be least expensive, even less than an SMA string inverter if rapid shutdown is required.

[ButchDeal]

Dont mean to start a discussion here, but solaredge module level monitoring is only available if you buy the optimizer wich is arround 70-80 a piece,and you need one for each panel, so in your scenario the optimizer cost is arround $1,610

With an enphase system you only need an envoy 450-550 tops and it will work for as many panels your system has.

If you use SolarEdge inverter then you HAVE to ( as it the inverter will not work without the optimizers ) use optimizers.
As I said the solaredge solution is about the same cost particularly with rapid shutdown requirements to other string systems and cheaper than micro inverter systems.
It has been descused here many times.

Some of the confusion comes in the costs of the micros is NOT the full cost, you also need to purchase the cable which is quite expensive.

[mike6116]

You aren't looking at the total picture.

Assume 27 panels, 280 W each (7560 W)

SolarEdge System
7600 W inverter = $1564.18
+
27 optimizers - $65.90 / ea = $1779.30
=
$3343.48 Total

Enphase System
27 M250's - $167.67 / ea = $4392.09
or
27 M215's - $131.25 / ea = $3543.75
+
Envoy = $480
+
Envoy Adapter = $34 (Why adapter envoy has an ethernet pr)
+
Enlighten Manager = $249 (this one is FREE Myenlighten)
=
$5155.09 total
or
$4306.75 total

So, tell me again which system is less expensive?

All prices above are from a single online retail distributor. Installers should have access to better pricing, but for a system of this size, SolarEdge should be least expensive, even less than an SMA string inverter if rapid shutdown is required.

We are talking about a $1000 difference that gives you the freedom to expand or reduce your system with no limit. getting an EV, new child ,expansion room, etc? try to fit that to a string system


if you have a failure with the grid inverter you are off. if same occurs with micros, then you just have 1 panel off.......then add the uninstal/install/repair costs and the $1000 gap will get shorter and shorter, then add the cable cost that is more expensive on string vs micros

Micros installs are cleaner, less cables needed(im not counting this cost to the differnece), easier to install,no big boxes on your house insides or perimeter

Definitely im on the micro inverters side (no brand here) they are the future and remember tecnology tends to reduce size of things no matter what.....the big boxes had their great time here, but they are getting older.......

[ButchDeal]

add the cable cost that is more expensive on string vs micros
...

Micro cabling is much more expensive then solarEdge cabling. You seem to be pretty dedicated to micros but have a destination lack of knowledge about the other options.