Rates plans with APS.

[FNG AZ]

Finally on the grid and have the 12-7 tou plan with the epr-6 option. Anyone have any experience experimenting with different plans?
My current usage is 24000 kWh per year. Solar should produce about 17000 kWh. 9.3kw dc/ 7.7ac

[solarix]

If you are generating less than about 90% of your usage, it is usually best to stay on the time-of-use plan. Even though the monthly service fee is higher, your on-peak charges are low because it is almost all offset by solar production and the usage deficit is on the off-peak low rates.
How long did it take APS to get you interconnected? They've been stalling like crazy in our area.

[FNG AZ]

Thanks Solarix. I was thinking the same thing.
Aps is definitely dealing with a high work load. I had completed both my customer and installer (self install) application by mid September. December 16th they reviewed my site plan and made me move my production meter and disco. What a pain in the butt.
Dec 4th my system was green tagged, so back to county for a minor permit to move the disco and meter plus 230 feet of #4 from the current location up to my ses.
Jan 6th green tag #2 and Aps called me at 9 am the 11th said they could do an inspection that day at 1130 or it would be another week before they could come out. APS inspector is a great guy and way overloaded. At this time he is the only one!!! So as of now I am on the grid but waiting for the bi directional meter and swap out my test meter. No credits for kWh sent back until they do!

So a heads up to everyone. Do not put your meter or utility disco behind any gates. The rules changed in March of 2015 and the green team was advising this was allowable as long as the gate had a aps lock and a place card at the ses.

[solarix]

You think that is bad? We've have one job where the house was added onto once upon a time, and they added a deck over the top of the SES. Because the utility demands access to the service equipment and because they fear that something like a deck may someday be enclosed, we now have to move the service outside the deck. So we build a wall and relocate the service figuring to just use the old service as a junction box to splice into the old lateral cable. Nope - because the old cable was a direct burial type now they are requiring us to replace it with conduit meaning trench out to the street through solid rock..... "Oh - you want solar? well, we want to put you through hell"

[FNG AZ]

You think that is bad? We've have one job where the house was added onto once upon a time, and they added a deck over the top of the SES. Because the utility demands access to the service equipment and because they fear that something like a deck may someday be enclosed, we now have to move the service outside the deck. So we build a wall and relocate the service figuring to just use the old service as a junction box to splice into the old lateral cable. Nope - because the old cable was a direct burial type now they are requiring us to replace it with conduit meaning trench out to the street through solid rock..... "Oh - you want solar? well, we want to put you through hell"

Ouch! soon enough they require the ses to be next to the mail box. That way in the event the meter they don't have to read anymore goes bad the guy never has to get out of his truck to change it!

[J.P.M.]

You think that is bad? We've have one job where the house was added onto once upon a time, and they added a deck over the top of the SES. Because the utility demands access to the service equipment and because they fear that something like a deck may someday be enclosed, we now have to move the service outside the deck. So we build a wall and relocate the service figuring to just use the old service as a junction box to splice into the old lateral cable. Nope - because the old cable was a direct burial type now they are requiring us to replace it with conduit meaning trench out to the street through solid rock..... "Oh - you want solar? well, we want to put you through hell"

I'm not a complete bureaucrat, but building codes exist for more reasons than to simply give homeowners grief - like safety concerns homeowners are probably clueless about.

On another vein: What is the logic of putting something over a system ? I'd think the homeowner or whoever decided on the addition would know they're responsible for the consequences and results of their decision(s).

I'm mostly a libertarian at heart, but this looks like it just might be another example of mean old government intruding into Bubba's right to screw himself.

[FNG AZ]

I am thinking of adding more panels before the APS rate case in June. I can add another 7k DC before going over my 125% limit for EPR-6. I think then I would switch to the flat rate....

[azdave]

I can add another 7k DC before going over my 125% limit for EPR-6.

Wow! Your going to add more than my total system.
I'm on SRP in Gilbert with just a 6.6kW grid-tie. This year I generated about 110% of my needs. In the next few years that will drop slightly but still should stay near 100%. I am on the basic flat rate plan now because when I was on a TOU plan I had a huge bank of off-peak credits but was not allowed to use those to offset my peak needs (except at true-up in April when I got paid wholesale value of roughly $0.03 kWh). I am far better off financially on flat rate since I generate all of my needs. After 20 years of SRP TOU plans it's nice not to worry anymore about when I use my appliances or run my pool pump.

[Ian S]

I am thinking of adding more panels before the APS rate case in June. I can add another 7k DC before going over my 125% limit for EPR-6. I think then I would switch to the flat rate....

That might not work out the best financially. APS only pays you $0.029/kWh excess at true-up in December. That's after a couple of months of low usage and therefore significant excess production which will be given back to APS at that low true-up rate. If you try to reduce the amount subject to the true-up rate via a smaller system, you're liable to under-produce during the hot summer months and have to buy from APS. Kind of a catch 22. You really should do a month by month simulation of production vs usage for your home to see what might be optimum.

[sunnyguy]

I am thinking of adding more panels before the APS rate case in June. I can add another 7k DC before going over my 125% limit for EPR-6. I think then I would switch to the flat rate....

I thought you could install up to 30kw without having to demonstrate 125% demand. Not that you would want to...

[sunnyguy]

That might not work out the best financially. APS only pays you $0.029/kWh excess at true-up in December. That's after a couple of months of low usage and therefore significant excess production which will be given back to APS at that low true-up rate. If you try to reduce the amount subject to the true-up rate via a smaller system, you're liable to under-produce during the hot summer months and have to buy from APS. Kind of a catch 22. You really should do a month by month simulation of production vs usage for your home to see what might be optimum.

Isn't the whole point of true-up so that your excess production in winter covers your deficit in summer?

[FNG AZ]

I thought you could install up to 30kw without having to demonstrate 125% demand. Not that you would want to...

APS told me they base it off of the past 12 months of usage x 125%. They calculate your production KWH based on system DC size in KW x 5 x 30 x 12= yearly kwh So for me 9.3 x 5 x 30 x 12 =16,740

We are putting in a pool/spa and expect or usage to go up.

[Ian S]

Isn't the whole point of true-up so that your excess production in winter covers your deficit in summer?

Only partly true with APS in Arizona. You can carry forward credits but can't carry them back. With APS, the trueup is in December so you do have the winter months from then on to bank credits. However, excess October, November and December production up to the date of your December bill can't be used to offset high usage in the previous summer. With the other major utility, SRP, their trueup is in April I believe, so you are even worse off. SRP, of course has effectively killed rooftop solar with their new demand charges that can't be offset at all.

[sunnyguy]

APS told me they base it off of the past 12 months of usage x 125%. They calculate your production KWH based on system DC size in KW x 5 x 30 x 12= yearly kwh So for me 9.3 x 5 x 30 x 12 =16,740

We are putting in a pool/spa and expect or usage to go up.

If you read the actual rate rider the way it's written (30kw OR 125%) implies that limit doesn't apply until you get above 30kw but I am not an expert.

[sunnyguy]

Only partly true with APS in Arizona. You can carry forward credits but can't carry them back. With APS, the trueup is in December so you do have the winter months from then on to bank credits. However, excess October, November and December production up to the date of your December bill can't be used to offset high usage in the previous summer. With the other major utility, SRP, their trueup is in April I believe, so you are even worse off. SRP, of course has effectively killed rooftop solar with their new demand charges that can't be offset at all.

I'm confused then why call it a true-up 12 month billing cycle? Is there an example true-up bill posted anywhere?

Like these: http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1763