CIS (Copper Indium Selenium) modules claim they are better for real world scenarios

[willstay]

Long story short, I just came across CIS modules and their representatives got me convinced that these panels are better than crystalline modules. One of the most attractive feature I came across is shadow tolerance. Please check following link - http://www.solar-frontier.com/eng/te...nce/index.html

What worries me is this data sheet ( http://www.solar-frontier.com/eng/so...s/S002210.html ). The max power voltage and current are 87.5v and 1.95A. I am planning to use MorningStar TS45 MPPT charge controller. Since this spec is slightly different from normal panels, I wonder how charge controller will pan out.

I wonder if it is good idea to invest in CIS panels.

[Sunking]

Thin film stay away from them. You have been warned.

Thin Folm market share has fallen from 15% of the market to less than 7% in 5 short years. All but one manufacture, now 2 have gone bankrupt. Remember Nobama's baby Solyndra and another of Bill Gates NanoSolar. They all have one thing in common. They deteriorate in the Sun. and quit working in a few short years.

Secondly it would cost you a fortune to install them. Know how many panels, racks, combiners , Fuses it wil take to make a system of any wattage.

Consider this your last warning. The company will be bankrupt and gone before your warranty is expired leaving you holding the bag.

[SunEagle]

Long story short, I just came across CIS modules and their representatives got me convinced that these panels are better than crystalline modules. One of the most attractive feature I came across is shadow tolerance. Please check following link - http://www.solar-frontier.com/eng/te...nce/index.html

What worries me is this data sheet ( http://www.solar-frontier.com/eng/so...s/S002210.html ). The max power voltage and current are 87.5v and 1.95A. I am planning to use MorningStar TS45 MPPT charge controller. Since this spec is slightly different from normal panels, I wonder how charge controller will pan out.

I wonder if it is good idea to invest in CIS panels.

Based on history thin film panels do not have the same life span as crystalline type.

Also most of those panels were designed for grid tie systems due to the high output voltage. Getting them to work with an off grid battery charge controller will require you to wire most of them in parallel instead of in series requiring much bigger combiner boxes.

[Drastyn]

Long story short, I just came across CIS modules and their representatives got me convinced that these panels are better than crystalline modules. One of the most attractive feature I came across is shadow tolerance.

I wonder if it is good idea to invest in CIS panels.

Compare yourself thin-film and crystalline in “real world scenarios" through www.pvcompare.net , I’ve tried it several times in different places in the world and the real output comparison shows that isn’t true, that “declaration" is far from being true.
And - as said from SunEagle and Sunking” those panels hides higher installation costs

[willstay]

Thanks to all of you. Yes the voltage is too high per panel and would require parallel connection. I was taking this on the positive side. In winter, shadow starts covering my roof at 2:30 and by 3:00 completely covered. Panels in series would stop working at 2:30 but if every panel is in parallel, I would be getting some power until last one is covered. From the product brochure of Solar-Frontier panels, I understood they will output some even in shadow. What I didn't find is someone doing high level comparison, longevity, shadow and angle test.

I am planning to install 960 watts panels. Get a MorningStar TS45 MPPT to charge four 200 Ah batteries connected in series. I read specs of mono/poly crystalline brochure and they guarantee 90% of rated max output up to 5 years and 80% for next 20 years. Keeping that into consideration, I think I should install panel size of around 1150 watts. My daily consumption is 5kWh on an average and on a normal day I at least get around 6 hrs (even in winter) sun. With these calculation and if things work out, I am planning to go off grind. I have taken out solar, inverter and battery efficiency. With those factored in, I may still have to use grid for 25% of the energy.

[Sunking]

TI am planning to install 960 watts panels. Get a MorningStar TS45 MPPT to charge four 200 Ah batteries connected in series. I read specs of mono/poly crystalline brochure and they guarantee 90% of rated max output up to 5 years and 80% for next 20 years. Keeping that into consideration, I think I should install panel size of around 1150 watts. My daily consumption is 5kWh on an average and on a normal day I at least get around 6 hrs (even in winter) sun. With these calculation and if things work out, I am planning to go off grind. I have taken out solar, inverter and battery efficiency. With those factored in, I may still have to use grid for 25% of the energy.

STOP because you are very misinformed and about to make a huge mistake.

Firt if you are connected tho the grid, DO NOT GO OFF Grid. Anything you take off-grid is going to cost you 5 to 10 times more than buying it from the POCO the rest of your life.

Second all your calculations are wrong, along with your bogus data. First up is YOU DO NOT HAVE 6 SUN HOURS. Not many places in the USA even get 6 Sun Hours in summer. In winter more than likely around 2 to 3 Sun Hours. Panels must have clear view of the horizon to the East, South, and West with NO SHADE issues. If you do not have that then whatever Sun Hours are listed for your area are useless which means it will take a lot more panel wattage to make up for it.

Next up you did not specify what battery voltage the 200 AH is. But at 5 Kwh day would require either a 24 volt @ 1050 Amp Hours or at 48 volts @ 525 Amp Hours. So makes no difference what voltage you were thinking, 200 AH is not going to work. You are looking at a $6000 battery today, and even more in 4 to 6 years when you have to replace it.

Assuming you only wat 5 Kwh/day and assumin ga real world 3 Sun Hour day in winter you are looking at a 2500 watt panel wattage with a 65 amp MS TriStar controller.

As you can see nothing you said works.

[willstay]

Thanks for pointing flaws. I am from Florida and we do get enough sun during winter too. I am thinking of four 200 Ah 12 v battery connected in series and planning to use a 3.5 kva inverter that takes 48 v as input. My calculation of total power battery can hold = 48 * 200 = 9600 watts. Consuming 5 kWh is only slightly higher than half the capacity battery can hold. Inefficiencies put in, lets say daily consumption is 6 kWh. So I would need 6 hours of peak sunlight to top up batteries using 960 watt of total solar panel. And yes I am not going to get peak sunlight for 6 hours per day.

[Sunking]

Thanks for pointing flaws. I am from Florida and we do get enough sun during winter too. I am thinking of four 200 Ah 12 v battery connected in series and planning to use a 3.5 kva inverter that takes 48 v as input. My calculation of total power battery can hold = 48 * 200 = 9600 watts. Consuming 5 kWh is only slightly higher than half the capacity battery can hold. Inefficiencies put in, lets say daily consumption is 6 kWh. So I would need 6 hours of peak sunlight to top up batteries using 960 watt of total solar panel. And yes I am not going to get peak sunlight for 6 hours per day.

No that is not how it works.

Let's take Orlando FL OK?

To generate and use 5 Kwh/day where the batteries will last at least 3 years requires:

Panel Wattage = 2000 watts = $3000
MPPT Charge Controller @ 48 volts = 40 Amps = $350
48 volt Battery = 500 AH = $6000 every 3 to 5 years
3 Kva Generator = $500
24 volt AC 40 amp Battery Charger = $400
Gen fuel unknown.
3000 watt Inverter max = $1000

All that to make 60-cents worth of electricity a day in FL. In 5 year you would pay FPL $1100. You wil now be paying your battery supplier $6000 all up front in cash for the same power.

[SunEagle]

Thanks for pointing flaws. I am from Florida and we do get enough sun during winter too. I am thinking of four 200 Ah 12 v battery connected in series and planning to use a 3.5 kva inverter that takes 48 v as input. My calculation of total power battery can hold = 48 * 200 = 9600 watts. Consuming 5 kWh is only slightly higher than half the capacity battery can hold. Inefficiencies put in, lets say daily consumption is 6 kWh. So I would need 6 hours of peak sunlight to top up batteries using 960 watt of total solar panel. And yes I am not going to get peak sunlight for 6 hours per day.

Your biggest issue is how you underestimated the amount of time and energy needed to replace 5 kWh of battery usage. To get the batteries back to 100% will always take a few extra hours of useful sunlight which you will never get in the Winter. By using 50% of your battery and not being able to replace that 50% will quickly kill that battery bank.

It would be better to have a bigger battery and only use 20 to 25% then it would be easier to put back what you took out. But you still have to size the solar array, CC and battery system to get at least a C/12 charging ratio during the Winter. Which is about 2400 watts of panels and a 60Amp CC.

[schmoot]

I am currently installing a mixed array consisting for 5.5KW of CIGS panels and 2.2KWs of standard LG panels. I will have individual performance tracking on each panel (solar edge system, which also solves the high voltage problem). In a couple of months, I will be able to report which panels perform better in real world cloudy situations.

[Mike90250]

And in 5 years after being in sunlight ?

[schmoot]

Not that you can really put that much stock in these things, but my particular panels have a 5/10/25 year 95/90/80% warranty, which seems pretty reasonable.

I honestly only used CIGS panels, because I got them for 10 cents a watt in a blow out sale, and would not pick CIGS over c-SI for the same price. And if they do have massive degredation in 5 years, I will just replace them with some c-SI panels at that time.

However, installation is not really that much more expensive for thin film. My racking and roof mounts for my entire system was 2700 (1/2 of it was for the quickmounts for roof attachment) including shipping, which seems to be pretty much in line with what I have seen for similar size c-SI systems. Fuses, complex string configurations, etc were not a problem because I opted to use SolarEdge, this added ~1K to my total cost but has additional advantages like being able to have different orientated panels on the same string.