Issues with Solar Company

[Living Large]

Bingo!

Tanya,

Watch out and do your research before you accept the refund. I don't know the answer to what J.P.M. has pointed out, but I would be very concerned that you have used up (some/all?) your eligibility for future Solar tax credits and rebates by taking them on your current system. This could cause you to have to pay more, most, or all of the full price for the next system. The result could be that you may end up locking yourself out of the solar market simply because the financial payback numbers won't work. (I don't know and maybe others that have more specific information on the tax credits and rebates can help here.)

I don't doubt that you may had been told verbally that this would cover 80% of your usage or bill, simply because you have a number (80%) and probably weren't dreaming that up, but step back and take a look at it again by setting aside your hurt and anger. I'm sure that verbal commitment (80%) factored into your decision to buy, but now that you have the system, if you ever plan on buying again you may be putting yourself into a worse financial position by accepting this refund. I don't know enough to advise you in absolutes, but I am recommending that you consider these words and do some research first. Also, see if others here can fill in my gaps to help as well.

In my opinion the $4.25/Watt is a bit high until you take into consideration that the system is small and thus there are some fixed costs (for any sized system) that make that number higher than would be a larger system. We also should factor into the cost that this was installed back in 2014 when the prices were still sliding downward, so that may have been an "ok" price at the time for the size of system in your location.

Another piece to this is that typically electric rates are tiered. The meaning is that as you use more electricity the rate you pay for the additional energy is higher. The small offset you are getting (approx 40%) would normally offset the most expensive (highest tier in your specific bill) electricity and in spite of the possible/likely(?) verbal misrepresentation by the salesperson, you are getting the most benefit by this small system because it is offsetting the most expensive part of the electrical usage. (I'll leave it to the experts on your local utility to chime in about the tier structure, but quite often this is how it works.)

I'm new to this forum too. I have learned a lot here and I've made mistakes. In the end though much of my mistakes is because I simply didn't know enough to ask the right questions. I've recovered from most of my mistakes based on information in these forums. (Working on one of them today, BTW. <My system to be installed next Monday, BTW>)

Tanya, I also need to say that you've had patience while riding through the expert opinions here. Please forgive some responses that seem terse as sometimes with written word it is easy to read emotion/tone into the responses that isn't there. I know. I do that too sometimes. There is a lot of help here and it's still coming.

Sincerely and with kindness,

Tim D.
Melbourne, FL

Helpful thoughts, Tim. I believe someone else also addressed the tiered rate factor and return if the system size is (and equally importantly, could be) doubled, with the same concept in mind. I'm new also, and I appreciate your input in helping Tonya make her decision. I am leaning towards she shouldn't have it removed based on what knowledgeable people have written, and also I'm curious why the company would offer to remove the system at this point if they did nothing wrong. Perhaps to avoid negative press at a relatively low cost.

[ndabunka]

That's the offer we got from them and of course we'll take it. Basically, we can remove the egg from our face without going to court and throw good money after bad. So you're saying we should expect to pay around $3.75 per watt of energy output for our next system. Anything else we need to know or should be aware of? I'm assuming we need around double the amount of solar panels than we have now.

Good to learn that you have a settlement and that the company is going to remove the solar from your home. Once they do so you should really CHANGE the title of this thread so that it more accurately reflects the final outcome and that is that ....you were not "ripped off" but were rather mis-informed and the company is taking steps to correct that communication flaw.

I am not a tax guy in any way (other than doing my own taxes and installing the systems that CPA use) but the other thing that you may want to do that (may be) FAR more critical is to ensure that any tax credits that you may have claimed in 2014 from the installation are also reimbursed to the government on your 2015 tax return (assuming they remove it this year). After all your 2014 taxes were likely far lower due to the solar credits. If you get a FULL refund for the equipment you can't, in good conscious, expect to retain that prior claim, right?

The other point on the "appropriate" amount to pay per watt is folly. Some on here try to portray that "nobody should pay more than XZY per watt or they are being RIPPED OFF". Some systems warrant a higher price per watt simply due to their design, features, future expand-ability, 25 year warranties, etc. So, $4.5/watt might actually be the BEST solution for your needs.

Don't be sucked into believing that "cheap is good". In all my many years on this planet I have learned that you often "get what you pay for". There are many on here saying "you will NEVER need the 25 year warranty" but those people are fools because... they can't actually SEE into the future to tell YOU what YOU might need in the year 2035. Solar might be like gold at that point and their "cheapo" systems might have already died by then and those that paid the premiums early (now) could have the ability to continue functioning on the manufacturer's dime. The reality is that you and your family may need more "hand-holding" than other clients may and there is a VALUE to that communication. Don't be afraid to spend more than the BARE MINIMUM that you see posted here for that additional knowledge and comfort with your future salesperson.

PS - You are NOT going to be able to offset your ENTIRE power bill "cheaply". The reality is that the company that sold you the panels in the first place is probably a reputable company (based on their willingness to "take it all back"). If you remove the system, you might owe Uncle Sam back-taxes. You might not qualify for a new system, etc. Talk to the OWNER of the company about the dilemma. They may be VERY willing to put additional panels in place for a SHARPLY discounted price point (say $2.35/watt for the additional panels) which would then give you a LOWER price per watt and almost anybody else on this board. The bottom line is... think this through.

PPS - I am not a solar sales person nor do I work in the industry. I am simply a new solar buyer who DID spend more (per watt) for a specific solution & it's abilities (most energy out of smallest footprint, future expansion, enhanced reporting/monitoring, ability to add a Tesla PowerWall without having to replace any components, etc) and whom has a solid business background and strong technical knowledge.

[KRenn]

Yeah, you fell victim to the idiot or scoundrel salesman that tells you a bunch of rubbish that they don't even understand and now you're stuck with the consequences of it. Lots of companies have made a tidy fortune off of that same line, making the ROI sound significantly better by overstating production on a system or at least ignoring what it would really take for you to cover a majority of your energy needs.

In terms of recourse, you can go to the Registrar of Contractors or go the lawsuit route but its going to be difficult for you to get any form of redress without some form of documentation showing that you were actually promised far more production than you are receiving. Usually when you sign a contract there is a stated "guarantee of production" in kilowatt hours which typically lowballs what your system will actually produce, if you had such a guarantee then the company will simply point to that, yawn and move on.