So help me understand this new $10 minimum bill with SCE

[josefontao]

So my understanding is that even if the solar system overproduces energy, SCE (and other POCOs) will still charge a minimum of $10.
But what happens to those credits that you accumulate month after month for selling the energy back to the POCO? Do they get wiped out too?

The plan, when i sized my system, was to accumulate just enough credits during the winter month to offset the higher usage in the summer months.

I'm ok if the credits remain but we still pay that $10 minimum, but if the credits get wiped out too, well that would be pretty messed up.

[sensij]

Pretend the monthly minimum bill doesn't exist. When you get your true-up, if you owe less than $120, you will be charged the difference to get to $120. So, if your summer credits perfectly offset your winter consumption, you'd have a $120 bill. If your summer credits covered all but $50 of winter consumption, you'd have a $70 charge for monthly minimums + $50 energy charge bringing the total to $120.

The CA climate and reduce your use days (or whatever SCE calls them) will complicate the picture, but the idea is the same.

[silversaver]

It is 2 different things. Your credit vs min bill.

Your credit calculation is base on 12 months period, but your min bill is charging towards you every month.

Make you life easy. If you are SCE, your monthly bill use to be $1.69 to $2 and now it will be $10 from now every month.

The "min" means regardless any condition, you are going to be paying min $10 or more per month.

[jmgray28]

So a perfectly sized system would have a $120 credit that would zero out the monthly min cost? Here in Connecticut we pay something like $37 a month just to be hooked to the grid, doesnt matter if you use any electricity. I suppose you could size your system to offset it. I dont think it would be very practical. Is this $10 charge on top of a grid connection fee?

[sensij]

I suppose you could size your system to offset it. I dont think it would be very practical. Is this $10 charge on top of a grid connection fee?

Yes, at $0.04 / kWh for generation in excess of what is consumed, the $120 would eventually be paid. Not a great way to spend money, in my opinion. There is currently no grid connection fee, although once NEM 2.0 kicks in there might be (early to mid next year for SDG&E, probably late 2016 to early 2017 for PG&E, and mid 2017 for SCE). The $10 minimum bill will probably turn into a fixed connection charge sometime in the 2020's, if my read of the CPUC's deliberations is correct.

[FFE]

Question #1: Did this take effect October 1st? I checked my SCE account online and my bill is much less than the new minimum daily charge. It is less than $3.

Question #2: Are you sure that excess generation can be used to offset the minimum charge? Like at the true up date I have a $100 credit so I pay $20.

Question #3: For the example above, would I have to have excess kWh generated for the year along with the money credit for this to work? I say this because I am on TOU-A and can adjust my life a little to have a $80-120 credit. My system is sized to allow me to use more energy than last year and have a slight credit after the first year. I will only generate about 60-70% of my use. However, I use about 50% of my power during the Super Off Peak time and my excess generation during peak times should more than offset dollar wise my Super Off Peak usage.

Thank you for taking the time to keep us informed.

[sensij]

Question #1: Did this take effect October 1st? I checked my SCE account online and my bill is much less than the new minimum daily charge. It is less than $3.

Does your bill include the CA Climate credit? For SCE customers, you are getting $29 cash back in April and October.

Question #2: Are you sure that excess generation can be used to offset the minimum charge? Like at the true up date I have a $100 credit so I pay $20.

"Excess Generation" means that at the end of the year, you've generated more kWh than you've consumed. The calculation occurs no matter whether you are on a tiered plan or TOU plan. SCE calls this Net Surplus Energy Compensation, currently around $0.033 / kWh. You receive that credit for the excess at the end of your 12 mo billing period. If you've consumed more kWh than you've generated, the excess generation calculation is not applicable.

Question #3: For the example above, would I have to have excess kWh generated for the year along with the money credit for this to work? I say this because I am on TOU-A and can adjust my life a little to have a $80-120 credit. My system is sized to allow me to use more energy than last year and have a slight credit after the first year. I will only generate about 60-70% of my use. However, I use about 50% of my power during the Super Off Peak time and my excess generation during peak times should more than offset dollar wise my Super Off Peak usage.

Thank you for taking the time to keep us informed.

There are two types of accounting ledgers... let's call them NEM credits and Account balance.

NEM credits basically come from the net energy charge each month. Under tiered plans, this usually works out to a straight (kWh in - kWh out) times the baseline rate, but when higher tiers are involved, it might not exactly match. Under TOU, energy in each TOU period is converted to dollars and netted out. At the end of the billing year, if you have NEM credits, they disappear, and if you have NEM debit, that amount moves into the Account Balance Ledger.

The Account Balance ledger is real money. Minimum monthly charges accrue here, as well as the CA Climate Credit, any excess generation credits (described in question 2), reduce your use credits (or whatever SCE calls the incentive on demand reduction days), and any balance owed from the NEM ledger. This ledger tabulates the real money that needs to be paid (or received) at the end of the year.

This is sort of a simplified explanation, the exact relationship between the monthly minimum and the NEM ledger varies a bit from one Poco and rate plan to the next. The end result is that you can be sure you will pay at least $120 (less any other Account Balance ledger credits).

[josefontao]

When you say end of year, is that when your NEM billing period started or Dec 31st?

Let's use some ~real numbers as an example.


Im on TOU and this is how I planned the system before the $10 minimum
My bill, on average, is -$15 every winter month, so thats 15x8= $120 worth of credit
The panels will not be enough to cover the summer months and my bills should be (on average) $50 every summer months. Thats 50x4= $200.
I would have had to pay SCE $80 for the year ($200 - $120 = $80).

But now, with the $10 minimum, i would still have to pay $10 those winter months, but the credits would still count against the summer usage, right?
So then I would have to pay $80 (for the winter months) plus the extra $80 for the summer months for a total of $160 for the year.

Is this about right? not counting the CA climate credit.

[sensij]

When you say end of year, is that when your NEM billing period started or Dec 31st?

Let's use some ~real numbers as an example.


Im on TOU and this is how I planned the system before the $10 minimum
My bill, on average, is -$15 every winter month, so thats 15x8= $120 worth of credit
The panels will not be enough to cover the summer months and my bills should be (on average) $50 every summer months. Thats 50x4= $200.
I would have had to pay SCE $80 for the year ($200 - $120 = $80).

But now, with the $10 minimum, i would still have to pay $10 those winter months, but the credits would still count against the summer usage, right?
So then I would have to pay $80 (for the winter months) plus the extra $80 for the summer months for a total of $160 for the year.

Is this about right? not counting the CA climate credit.

It is when the billing year starts, the anniversary of your NEM start date. Some Poco's allow you to choose what month to use as your true-up (once), so if it matters to you, look into it.

In your example, you would owe an additional $40 on top of the $80, for $120 total (ignoring all other considerations). Not long ago, I believed that $160 was the right answer, but was convinced through documentation on all of the poco's sites, and from examples of forum members who have been through their first year, that the minimum really ends up being calculated on an annual basis, not monthly.

[silversaver]

I just received my Nov bill from SCE. The billing cycle starts on Oct 13th. I DO NOT have the $10 min charges on my bill!!!!

Now I am confuse on how the SCE charges the min charges. I thought it is a min $10 we have to pay each month.

Or, Does SCE put a min $10 each month to off set your credit??

[sensij]

I just received my Nov bill from SCE. The billing cycle starts on Oct 13th. I DO NOT have the $10 min charges on my bill!!!!

Now I am confuse on how the SCE charges the min charges. I thought it is a min $10 we have to pay each month.

Or, Does SCE put a min $10 each month to off set your credit??

Edit:
I just took another look. Your bill for the month was $56.99. You exceeded the $10 minimum, so you should not expect to see a minimum charge line item on this bill. The $10 minimum does not necessarily have to be paid each month as you go (PG&E does require a payment, SDG&E does not), but when the true-up is calculated, I would expect the minimum charge to show up more clearly at that time.

[silversaver]

Edit:
I just took another look. Your bill for the month was $56.99. You exceeded the $10 minimum, so you should not expect to see a minimum charge line item on this bill. The $10 minimum does not necessarily have to be paid each month as you go (PG&E does require a payment, SDG&E does not), but when the true-up is calculated, I would expect the minimum charge to show up more clearly at that time.

That is the part I'm confusing about. In Spring, I would be generate credit towards my account and I'm not sure how SCE will calculate that part...

[sensij]

That is the part I'm confusing about. In Spring, I would be generate credit towards my account and I'm not sure how SCE will calculate that part...

If your true-up bill (plus any payments you've made throughout the year) is less than $120, or whatever the total of $1.77 months (old minimum prior to Oct 1) + $10 months works out to be, you will be charged the difference to bring the total to the minimum. What shows up for the "minimum charge" on the monthly statements doesn't matter much, it will be reconciled at the end of the 12 mo billing period.

If you go back and look at your bills from last Spring, is there a line item for minimum charge that brings the monthly bill to about $1.77?

[silversaver]

If your true-up bill (plus any payments you've made throughout the year) is less than $120, or whatever the total of $1.77 months (old minimum prior to Oct 1) + $10 months works out to be, you will be charged the difference to bring the total to the minimum. What shows up for the "minimum charge" on the monthly statements doesn't matter much, it will be reconciled at the end of the 12 mo billing period.

If you go back and look at your bills from last Spring, is there a line item for minimum charge that brings the monthly bill to about $1.77?

The Net Metering with SCE, unless you have a small system and option for monthly billing, your monthly bill is always around or less than $2 per month on basic meter charge. My system is big enough to cover 85% of load and TOU plan makes my bill $0, I'm just paying the basic metering fee.

[FFE]

Thank you to everyone that is trying to help

Just received my SCE bill in the mail. Here are the details:

19 day bill cycle (since I just started NEM)

$0.59 Basic charge 19 days x $0.031
$2.10 Bal of minimum charge
$0.04 Tax
$2.73 Total due

I had a negative energy charge and my NEM shows the same negative amount as my YTD total.

I am on the TOU-A plan and all of my energy charges are negative except for a $0.73 DWR bond charge, my Super Off Peak delivery charge and my Super Off Peak generation charge. So they didn't apply the charge there.

It appears that I will have to pay the balance of minimum due every month instead of including it in the Net metering. And, it is lower than expected
Very confusing.

FYI my CA climate credit was shown two bills ago. Sorry for the confusing wording on Question #2 earlier.