New minimum $10/month "Delivery Charge" for SCE customers.

[sensij]

Thanks everyone for the info - I need to go away and digest this....I see that the minimum charge is "subtracted" from the total bill....Confused... very confused...Because if your total bill was only $30 then PGE would give you money (30-53.10)....Sorry if I'm being really dumb.....

Once the total NEM charges due hits zero, it can't go any lower. NEM credits do not actually get paid out. If you generate more kWh than you consume, you move into excess generation credits, which is a different ballgame. The calculation is just making sure you got credit for the minimum charges that were paid throughout the year.

[FFE]

I believe the takeaway should be that if you have a properly sized system, you will pay about $70-80 for electricity to your power company for the year according to me. Not sure what sensij is saying, but I think he is saying less.

The links he provided make no sense. On the bills it shows the customer owes more than $10 most months but still has a $10 minimum charge????

PG&E might be different than SCE.

Here is a link to the SCE version. Near the end and underlined it states NEM credits... are not allowed to offset the Balance of Minimum charge.

https://www.sce.com/wps/wcm/connect/4e6b6a55-f0af-4b12-8f5f-4452314c997d/Minimum_Bill_Charge_4.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&attachment=false&id=1447808072785

[tweekzilla]

Thanks everyone for the info - I need to go away and digest this....I see that the minimum charge is "subtracted" from the total bill....Confused... very confused...Because if your total bill was only $30 then PGE would give you money (30-53.10)....Sorry if I'm being really dumb.....

[sensij]

However, according to sensij at the end of the 12 month cycle they take into about what you have paid throughout the year for your balance of minimum due charges and factor that into your annual true up. I have not heard or read of this, but he has seen it in others bills.

Read this... SCE, PG&E, and SDG&E all do the same thing, PG&E just documents it best.

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/myhome/saveenergymoney/solarenergy/NEM_brochure.pdf

Some of the numbers don't add up anymore because they changed the minimum bill to $10 to reflect the new tariff, without updating the subtotals. Lame... a couple weeks ago this was a better example.

Edit:

Found a version that hadn't been modified. The numbers actually add up on this one:

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/myhome/saveenergymoney/solarenergy/billing%20callouts-trueup.pdf

[FFE]

So the charge is before the credit - i.e. say in the month before true-up If I have $20 credit and I net use $10 worth of electricity then I would pay $10 that month but it would be cancelled out by the $10 credit at the end of the year? Or maybe I'm confused....

Yes and no. The way I see it you would pay about $5. However, if sensij is right you pay only the basic charge.

The way I interpret the propaganda and what I see on my monthly bill is as follows:

You have your monthly charges (labeled "new charges") that have to be paid and have nothing to do with the minimum charge nor your annual true up as follows:
$0.031 per day plus state taxes on your net usage. Normally this is less than $2.

Then you have your NEM annual tracked charges that have nothing to do with the minimum charge: These are the ones that at the end of one year on your "anniversary" you have to true up. Labeled "tracked charges" on your bill. They have a box next to it that keeps a running total for your 12 month cycle. This includes the following:
Delivery charges, Generation charges and baseline credit if you are TOU-A (and the Climate credit possibly)

Finally you have the minimum charge. This only takes into account what your Delivery charges are compared to the minimum (remember the delivery charges are normally about half of your electric bill before one adds solar). So you have at least 4 possibilities every month:

1. You generate lots of extra credit (dollar wise of course) and the sum of your delivery charges is negative $10 or more. (actually billing cycle days x $0.0329)
Now you have to pay the monthly charge plus approximately $10 at the end of that billing cycle. You also put a big credit in your NEM tracked charges toward your annual true up.

2. You generate a moderate amount of excess credit (dollar wise of course). Now you pay less than $10 plus the monthly charges at the end of that billing cycle. You also put a moderate credit in your NEM tracked charges toward your annual true up.

3. You use a little more than you generate (dollar wise of course). Now you pay between $0 and $10 plus the monthly charges at the end of that billing cycle. You remove some of the credit built up or you increase the amount of your NEM tracked charges toward your annual true up.

4. You use much more than you generate (dollar wise of course). Now you pay only the monthly charges at the end of that billing cycle. You remove some of the credit built up or you increase the amount of your NEM tracked charges toward your annual true up.

At the end of your 12 month cycle you do one of three things: (your annual true up)
1. You have a positive dollar balance and you pay SCE. What SCE calls your "cumulative energy charge Year-to-Date."
2. You have a negative dollar balance but a positive kWh balance and your balance resets to $0 and 0 kWh.
3. You have a negative dollar balance and a negative kWh balance and SCE sends you a small check. (not too sure about this, hopefully someone else can verify or refute this)

However, according to sensij at the end of the 12 month cycle they take into about what you have paid throughout the year for your balance of minimum due charges and factor that into your annual true up. I have not heard or read of this, but he has seen it in others bills.

The way SCE is applying the minimum charge is extremely confusing in my opinion. There are way to many factors involved to precisely figure out what to expect.

[tweekzilla]

So the charge is before the credit - i.e. say in the month before true-up If I have $20 credit and I net use $10 worth of electricity then I would pay $10 that month but it would be cancelled out by the $10 credit at the end of the year? Or maybe I'm confused....

[FFE]

Keep in mind that it only accounts for delivery charges. My DWR bond charge, my generation charges (which totaled a credit for me) and my baseline credit gave me a Net energy charge of around -$20.

So I paid the balance ($2.10) this month and have a credit in my annual energy charge. Not a $10 charge.

However, I am not sure how SCE will handle my true up.

So for my example I will probably pay SCE $5-12 per month on my generation months and about $2 per month on my useage months. I expect to generate about $20 per month 8 months of the year and consume $40 per month on my 4 usage months. I'm hoping for a $0 true up. So, I expect to pay about $80 to SCE over the 12 month period.

The above example of six and six would probably pay a similar amount. Not $120 or $180 minus what they paid through out the year.

[sensij]

There is a lot of incorrect information here on the new Minimum Charge. Here is how it is calculated according to the FAQ and a real example.

There will be a "Bal of minimum charge" added to your bill if your delivery charge is less than the minimum.
It is added to your current bill you pay every month. It is not applied to your NEM annual true up.

What you see on the monthly bill does not necessarily work out to what you will see on the true up. Consider a case in which a person generates for 6 months, and then consumes at least $20 / mo for the next 6 months.

If what you are suggesting is true, the customer will have a "bal of minimum charge" added to the net generation months, with nothing added for the consuming months. At the end of the year, however, the total amount paid will have been 6 * $20 from the consumption months + 6 * $10 / mo minimum charge for the generation months, so $180 total annual bill. What you will find is that the true up will only be $120 in this case, less any payments made throughout the year.

I originally made the same argument you did based on what is written on the monthly bills, but was convinced by actual true-up statements showing how it was reconciled.

[FFE]

There is a lot of incorrect information here on the new Minimum Charge. Here is how it is calculated according to the FAQ and a real example.

There will be a "Bal of minimum charge" added to your bill if your delivery charge is less than the minimum.
It is added to your current bill you pay every month. It is not applied to your NEM annual true up.

My last bill for example:

Delivery charges
On peak -$2.36
Off peak -$13.25
Super off peak $19.17

The sum of the above is $3.56.

My minimum charge is $6.25 (19 days times $0.329).

So my Bal of minimum charge on my bill was $2.10 ($6.25-3.56).

My total bill that was due was $2.73 (the sum of the basic charge $0.59 ;19 days times $0.031/day plus, Bal of minimum due and taxes; net useage times $0.00029)

[sensij]

Does this only apply if you change plans - I just had solar installed and was about to switch from Domestic to TOU-D A. Is there any grandfathering if you stay on the domestic plan or are we all going to get hit with this $10 no matter what?

No grandfathering. Rates are subject to change. The $10 minimum should be good for another 5ish years, with CPI increases after that. New TOU plans are coming by 2019 that may be structured differently than existing plans.

[tweekzilla]

Does this only apply if you change plans - I just had solar installed and was about to switch from Domestic to TOU-D A. Is there any grandfathering if you stay on the domestic plan or are we all going to get hit with this $10 no matter what?

[sensij]

That good news imo. I truly didn't expect that approach from them.

Don't give then too much credit. They wanted a fixed charge, CPUC ruled otherwise.

[Stomp]

We reviewed it in another thread recently. It gets calculated on an annualized basis. If you already pay $120 or more at true up, or made payments through the year, the change will not affect you at all.

That good news imo. I truly didn't expect that approach from them.

[sensij]

We reviewed it in another thread recently. It gets calculated on an annualized basis. If you already pay $120 or more at true up, or made payments through the year, the change will not affect you at all.

[Stomp]

In many areas $10 is about norm but no listed as min bill. It just works out that way in static fees, meter reading / rental fees, etc. $10 is pretty fair and reasonable but like you say, it is the concern that they will increase beyond that as some areas have done.

I don't disagree with them recouping some infrastructure costs, but it's the mechanism by which it (presumably) will work. I have a few months where I'm a net contributor to the grid both from a dollars and kwh perspective. Those months (I assume) I'll get hit by the $10 fee. I have a few other months where I'm a heavy user and I'm paying over a couple hundred dollars. I clearly won't get hit with the fee that month, but take one or a few large months like that and a user (like me) could cover that annualized fee.

My preference would be that the same way we get billed on an annual basis for usage (besides the dollar something in taxes), that the $10/month is more of a minimum $120/year, and if the sum of my monthly payments didn't hit $120 then the user is assessed.

I understand why they are doing something - we'll see how it is implemented and evolves over time.