Add/Upgrade new panel in existing system

[solar_newbie]

I have my system now. Let say I lock for NEM 1.0 on 5KW.

Base on the website, I can lock for 20 years and not allow to add/upgrade more than 500w (10% or 1kw)

Let say couple years later, I add 1kw myself into the existing system. Of course I can get city permit. However, I do not file NEM application. How PGE knows?

[J.P.M.]

I have my system now. Let say I lock for NEM 1.0 on 5KW.

Base on the website, I can lock for 20 years and not allow to add/upgrade more than 500w (10% or 1kw)

Let say couple years later, I add 1kw myself into the existing system. Of course I can get city permit. However, I do not file NEM application. How PGE knows?

How about they read you meter 1X/month and notice your usage changes ? Also, in S.D. anyway, SDG & E and the county cooperate on notifications when inspections are done and all is well, but maybe PG & E is different. Do what you want, but know the consequences.

[solardreamer]

Assuming you are adding panel because of consumption increase then PG&E may not see any change at all because they only see net energy.

How about they read you meter 1X/month and notice your usage changes ? Also, in S.D. anyway, SDG & E and the county cooperate on notifications when inspections are done and all is well, but maybe PG & E is different. Do what you want, but know the consequences.

[solar_newbie]

Assuming you are adding panel because of consumption increase then PG&E may not see any change at all because they only see net energy.

The main reason is to add few panels due to consumption increase. Plus I am thinking to put them in rack, so it can be converted to battery charger as needed. I guess if PG&E can only see net energy. They would not notice.

[solar_newbie]

How about they read you meter 1X/month and notice your usage changes ? Also, in S.D. anyway, SDG & E and the county cooperate on notifications when inspections are done and all is well, but maybe PG & E is different. Do what you want, but know the consequences.

Add a new meter is costly later... change from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 might not be a good option (but let see how NEM 2.0 looks like). It is just a thought as I already super size my solar 142% my current usage ...

One option is to add similar amount of batteries to store extra power beyond 500w allowance for my system . 5 years from now those should be cheaper ... I Still can leverage the rest of the NEM 1.0 agreement.

[MARKSDCA]

I have my system now. Let say I lock for NEM 1.0 on 5KW.

Base on the website, I can lock for 20 years and not allow to add/upgrade more than 500w (10% or 1kw)

Let say couple years later, I add 1kw myself into the existing system. Of course I can get city permit. However, I do not file NEM application. How PGE knows?

They will either fly over your roof with a drone and snap a pic (creepy).....or they will look at Google Earth and just count your panels (assuming Google Earth updates it's photos routinely).

[bcroe]

They will either fly over your roof with a drone and snap a pic (creepy).....or they will look at Google Earth and just count your panels (assuming Google Earth updates it's photos routinely).

Google earth is 2 years out of date here; things change so much, can always date. Just have lots
of panels around, and nobody knows which are actually connected.

I really can't imagine anybody trying to match drone pictures to drawings. A lot more likely is
noting power delivered to the line. Bruce Roe

[Mike90250]

..... A lot more likely is noting power delivered to the line. Bruce Roe

The power co billing computers note usage patter variations in homes and neighborhoods. When you add panels, your usage goes down a bit in the sunny part of the day, Busted.

[SunEagle]

It still amazes me that so many people are working so hard to Cheat their POCO when it comes to solar.

If too many people are caught doing this it will only provide fuel for the POCO to claim losses and be allowed to increase their charges or the requirements for any solar installation.

Installing a grid tie solar system will save people money. Why are some getting so greedy they must turn to stealing a few bucks from the POCO?

[J.P.M.]

It still amazes me that so many people are working so hard to Cheat their POCO when it comes to solar.

If too many people are caught doing this it will only provide fuel for the POCO to claim losses and be allowed to increase their charges or the requirements for any solar installation.

Installing a grid tie solar system will save people money. Why are some getting so greedy they must turn to stealing a few bucks from the POCO?

FWIW, doesn't amaze me at all. Not much different than how a good portion of the rest of the world operates. Everything has a price.

[bcroe]

It still amazes me that so many people are working so hard to
Cheat their POCO when it comes to solar.

If too many people are caught doing this it will only provide fuel for the POCO to claim losses
and be allowed to increase their charges or the requirements for any solar installation.

Installing a grid tie solar system will save people money. Why are some getting so greedy they
must turn to stealing a few bucks from the POCO?

Most of what I read isn't stealing. Rather creating a dangerous situation, or not having all the
paperwork in order. A slight drop in consumption isn't cheating the POCO; usage isn't contracted
to a certain level. Nobody said anything when I removed a very old freezer and an old fridge, and
replaced them with the most efficient fridge/freezer made; these were my biggest users in the
non heating season. Same when this house went from an electric to gas water heater, a huge
shift. Or when I disconnect a pair of big all night automatic area lights, and replaced them
with motion detector lights: about a $10 a month difference. The idea of chasing every ripple
is silly; more so here where the season to season and year to year weather variations have so
much impact.

It reminds me of the extension phone issue when I was a kid (long ago). The big house we
bought was wired for an extension phone, the phone was gone. The phone co had a hefty
charge for the LUXURY of an extension phone way back then. There was no additional service
provided by the phone co; so just rent on the actual extension phone. Some people figured
out they could just connect their own phone for free. Back then the phone co had lobbied for
monopoly control to make it illegal. These days of course those rules have been struck down;
I don't see that it was any more right back then to have such restrictions.

The phone co sometimes ran an impedance check for extra phones on lines to try and enforce
their monopoly. My dad brought home a phone for an extension, so I unhooked the ringer. It
showed an open circuit on hook, when an impedance check might be run.

Later the phone co got in trouble enforcing these unjustified regs, and the courts took some
really serious actions against them. Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

Most of what I read isn't stealing. Rather creating a dangerous situation, or not having all the
paperwork in order. A slight drop in consumption isn't cheating the POCO; usage isn't contracted
to a certain level. Nobody said anything when I removed a very old freezer and an old fridge, and
replaced them with the most efficient fridge/freezer made; these were my biggest users in the
non heating season. Same when this house went from an electric to gas water heater, a huge
shift. Or when I disconnect a pair of big all night automatic area lights, and replaced them
with motion detector lights: about a $10 a month difference. The idea of chasing every ripple
is silly; more so here where the season to season and year to year weather variations have so
much impact.

It reminds me of the extension phone issue when I was a kid (long ago). The big house we
bought was wired for an extension phone, the phone was gone. The phone co had a hefty
charge for the LUXURY of an extension phone way back then. There was no additional service
provided by the phone co; so just rent on the actual extension phone. Some people figured
out they could just connect their own phone for free. Back then the phone co had lobbied for
monopoly control to make it illegal. These days of course those rules have been struck down;
I don't see that it was any more right back then to have such restrictions.

The phone co sometimes ran an impedance check for extra phones on lines to try and enforce
their monopoly. My dad brought home a phone for an extension, so I unhooked the ringer. It
showed an open circuit on hook, when an impedance check might be run.

Later the phone co got in trouble enforcing these unjustified regs, and the courts took some
really serious actions against them. Bruce Roe

Most of the Cable Companies have the ability to determine how many "boxes" are connected at an address. If their "check" comes back different then their records they take action.

That is the main reason I choose not to unplug a cable box to reduce my vampire loads. If that box is powered down when they do the "check" they disable it so it will not be used somewhere else illegally.

So maybe saying that they are Cheating is a little too strong. But IMO from what I have read most want to get something from the POCO without paying for it. That is different then reducing my bill by turning off electrical loads.

[bcroe]

I choose not to unplug a cable box to reduce my vampire loads. If that box is powered down when they do the "check" they disable it so it will not be used somewhere else illegally.

No cable here; I recall those boxes are pretty hungry at the 50W level, why? Might be
largely avoidable waste, I cut my alarm system standby 2/3 by reworking the supply.
They had an inefficient wall wart feeding a linear reg from 12V to 5V; changed that.
Maybe cable is like that? Bruce Roe

[dshenmdyn]

I have my system now. Let say I lock for NEM 1.0 on 5KW.

Base on the website, I can lock for 20 years and not allow to add/upgrade more than 500w (10% or 1kw)

Let say couple years later, I add 1kw myself into the existing system. Of course I can get city permit. However, I do not file NEM application. How PGE knows?

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_NEM.pdf

Sheet 2

Modifications: After the NEM Cap as defined above is reached, modifications or repairs
made to the Renewable Electric Generation Facilities of NEM Transition Eligible
Customers, NEMV Transition Eligible Customers or NEMVMASH Transition Eligible
Customers, shall remain eligible as long as the modifications or repairs do not increase
the Renewable Electrical Generation Facility’s generating capacity by more than the
greater of:
(i) 10 percent of the Renewable Electrical Generation Facility’s generating capacity
specified in the original PTO establishing the NEM Transition Period; or
(ii) 1 kilowatt,
so long as it otherwise continues to remain eligible for NEM, NEMV, or NEMVMASH.

PGE allow you to increase by NOT "more than the greater of" the two: 500W (10%) or 1kW. So you should be able to do 1kW without triggering being thrown out of your existing NEM 1.0.

[solar_newbie]

I see. 1KW should be good for extension ... to cover the lost of system performance and additional usages in the future.