Envoy Gateway reliability...

[solar_newbie]

I guess the best suggestion is to install envoy in the panel that hold solar breakers. My solar breakers are in the second sub-panel. I have to install envoy to the garage breaker in the first sub-panel where there is no other electric usage to get 2-3 bar signal.
In order to get steady 3-5 bar signal, I need to plug into the second sub-panel where both my solar breakers connected to.

[Samsolar]

New Envoys have been announced

That's good to know....

Are you able to install the Envoy device outdoors, or do you have to install it indoors? Just curious....

I'd also be interested to see if any of you with the Envoy system installed have any automated lighting system in your home that also use the power lines for communications (i.e. Insteon, X-10, etc.)

Check out the Enphase website. There appears to be new Envoys with longer warranties and even one with an enclosure that may work outdoors. Not sure if they have been released yet.

[w00dy]

I'd also be interested to see if any of you with the Envoy system installed have any automated lighting system in your home that also use the power lines for communications (i.e. Insteon, X-10, etc.)

I just had my Envoy system hooked up in the last couple of days.

I have a whole house fan system from Broan that uses X-10 type communication to control our whole home ventilation and fresh air. At the time of my install it wasn't working correctly - it stopped automatically cycling through the different fans in the home. I didn't really care as we still have windows open, but I was planning to look into why it wasn't working in the next few weeks before it starts to get cold in the Bay Area.

Well, after my envoy was attached the exhaust fans started cycling through their programs, so it must have triggered something in them to start working. We also have some touch to turn on side table lights that are now turning on automatically ever since the Envoy was installed nearby...something to try to figure out I suppose! I expect having an X10 device on the same circuit breaker with a touch sensitive light is something to avoid...

[solar_newbie]

I just had my Envoy system hooked up in the last couple of days.

I have a whole house fan system from Broan that uses X-10 type communication to control our whole home ventilation and fresh air. At the time of my install it wasn't working correctly - it stopped automatically cycling through the different fans in the home. I didn't really care as we still have windows open, but I was planning to look into why it wasn't working in the next few weeks before it starts to get cold in the Bay Area.

Well, after my envoy was attached the exhaust fans started cycling through their programs, so it must have triggered something in them to start working. We also have some touch to turn on side table lights that are now turning on automatically ever since the Envoy was installed nearby...something to try to figure out I suppose! I expect having an X10 device on the same circuit breaker with a touch sensitive light is something to avoid...

You can install envoy in the garage or in any other breaker if you just configure WIFI.

[inetdog]

I just had my Envoy system hooked up in the last couple of days.

I have a whole house fan system from Broan that uses X-10 type communication to control our whole home ventilation and fresh air. At the time of my install it wasn't working correctly - it stopped automatically cycling through the different fans in the home. I didn't really care as we still have windows open, but I was planning to look into why it wasn't working in the next few weeks before it starts to get cold in the Bay Area.

Well, after my envoy was attached the exhaust fans started cycling through their programs, so it must have triggered something in them to start working. We also have some touch to turn on side table lights that are now turning on automatically ever since the Envoy was installed nearby...something to try to figure out I suppose! I expect having an X10 device on the same circuit breaker with a touch sensitive light is something to avoid...

Simple X10 can have problems when the controller and the controlled are on different legs of the 120/240V power at your breaker panel. The RF signal does not always make it through the POCO transformer from one side to the other.

The micros are designed to transmit using both phases and the neutral since they have a 240V connection. It is possible that they also fortuitously provided an effective path from one hot to the other which the X10 devices are now making use of.

Or it might just be the capacitance between the wires in the Enphase trunk cable.

As for the touch sensitive lamps, I have no idea what is going on.

[propman07]

I just had my Envoy system hooked up in the last couple of days.

I have a whole house fan system from Broan that uses X-10 type communication to control our whole home ventilation and fresh air. At the time of my install it wasn't working correctly - it stopped automatically cycling through the different fans in the home. I didn't really care as we still have windows open, but I was planning to look into why it wasn't working in the next few weeks before it starts to get cold in the Bay Area.

Well, after my envoy was attached the exhaust fans started cycling through their programs, so it must have triggered something in them to start working. We also have some touch to turn on side table lights that are now turning on automatically ever since the Envoy was installed nearby...something to try to figure out I suppose! I expect having an X10 device on the same circuit breaker with a touch sensitive light is something to avoid...

w00dy- Thanks for the reply. I'm running a bunch of Insteon lighting controllers, so I'm not sure if they will have the same interference problems the older X10 technology. I plan on running a dedicated cable for the Envoy connection. I'll have to see if I can find power outlet close to the array to hopefully avoid any signal interference issues. I may see if I can contact the Envoy folks to see if they have any suggestions.

[w00dy]

Simple X10 can have problems when the controller and the controlled are on different legs of the 120/240V power at your breaker panel. The RF signal does not always make it through the POCO transformer from one side to the other.

The micros are designed to transmit using both phases and the neutral since they have a 240V connection. It is possible that they also fortuitously provided an effective path from one hot to the other which the X10 devices are now making use of.

Or it might just be the capacitance between the wires in the Enphase trunk cable.

As for the touch sensitive lamps, I have no idea what is going on.

Yes - we should have everything on the same leg of the panel - but we have had some problems with our ventilation system that even Broan hasn't been able to troubleshoot.

I don't mind if everything now works properly due to additional signals - the touch lamps are in our guest room, so not critical to our home!

[Dave1478]

I am going to be getting the Enphase Envoy system and my thoughts are to just use it for beginning to make sure system working. Then only plug it in every few months or only if I notice an irregular kw production based on the meter.


Maybe to extend the life of the envoy as I hear their durability is lacking. Thoughts?

[solar_newbie]

I am going to be getting the Enphase Envoy system and my thoughts are to just use it for beginning to make sure system working. Then only plug it in every few months or only if I notice an irregular kw production based on the meter.


Maybe to extend the life of the envoy as I hear their durability is lacking. Thoughts?

Hard to say... I just plug it in for 1 year to get benchmark for my pvOutput. Once I got them, I could monitor the following year via PG&E online ...
I might plug few months from 2nd year and beyond.

Please note future envoy-S will be much better. I guess I will upgrade once this envoy is down.

[w00dy]

Simple X10 can have problems when the controller and the controlled are on different legs of the 120/240V power at your breaker panel. The RF signal does not always make it through the POCO transformer from one side to the other.

The micros are designed to transmit using both phases and the neutral since they have a 240V connection. It is possible that they also fortuitously provided an effective path from one hot to the other which the X10 devices are now making use of.

Or it might just be the capacitance between the wires in the Enphase trunk cable.

As for the touch sensitive lamps, I have no idea what is going on.

I am back - with more problems with X10/Powerline issues.

I think I have figured out the sequence of what has happened so I will list it below to get input on what I can do.

- Spring 2015: Everything was working properly with our Broad automatic "smartsense" exhaust fans that use X10/powerline communication to turn on exhaust fans and operate a make-up air damper to provide fresh air to the home. All of the exhaust fans are on our in home electrical sub panel. They were/are on one leg of that panel.

- Summer 2015: New electrical work done - 240 breaker and new sub panel added to main panel - for new in ground pool. Broan Exhaust Fans stopped automatically cycling

- Sept 2015: New solar panels and Enphase microinvertors added to home - this included yet another new 240V breaker added to the main panel. Once the Enphase Envoy was plugged in next to our router (inside the home on a 120v plug that is part of the home sub-panel), the Broan fans started cycling again!

- Oct 2015: New 240 Breaker added to the main electrical panel for EV car charging - one existing breaker had to be moved up the panel - once this was installed it killed the Broan fans automatic cycling.

I don't know what to do next - Broan suggested I attempt to reset and synch all of the fans again. I will attempt that later tonight. Otherwise I would appreciate any suggestions...

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Edit: I just found this on the troubleshooting section for Powerline communication with the Envoy...

The following devices may interfere with power line communications:
• power strips and surge protectors on the same circuit
• UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) / battery backup units on the same circuit
• dimmer switches
• home automation/security devices that use power line communication
• touch lamps
• battery chargers (cell phone and laptop chargers)
• AC adapters (laptop power cord)
• heavy rotating motors (e.g., fans, refrigerators, freezers, water pumps)
• workshop equipment (e.g., drill press, table saw, wood routers, planers)
• CFLs (Compact fluorescent lights) with failed ballasts anywhere in the home
• electronic pest deterrents
• GFI outlets
• some brands of arc-fault protected outlets (arc-fault breaker)

[Samsolar]

It sounds like moving breakers is causing the problem.? When a breaker gets moved, you can end up swapping which pole goes to which phase.

So let's say you had a 240v breaker in you panel and the red wire is on L1 and the black is on L2. When you move the breaker down a space, red is now on L2 and black is on L1. You only moved a breaker, but you may have moved from a noisy line to a clean one or vice versa.

I'd suggest moving your fan breaker one slot and see what happens.

Apologies in advance if my terminology is off. I'm sure someone else on here can correct me if I missed something.

[w00dy]

It sounds like moving breakers is causing the problem.? When a breaker gets moved, you can end up swapping which pole goes to which phase.

So let's say you had a 240v breaker in you panel and the red wire is on L1 and the black is on L2. When you move the breaker down a space, red is now on L2 and black is on L1. You only moved a breaker, but you may have moved from a noisy line to a clean one or vice versa.

I'd suggest moving your fan breaker one slot and see what happens.

Apologies in advance if my terminology is off. I'm sure someone else on here can correct me if I missed something.

Thanks - what you are describing sounds like what could be happening. However, my 5 fans, and 1 Make Up Air damper, are on downstream sub panel from where the 240V breakers in question were added/moved. Also, since my fans and damper are all on different breakers, I would need to move 6 breakers in my house sub panel, and I don't know where to move them...

[solarz]

Thanks - what you are describing sounds like what could be happening. However, my 5 fans, and 1 Make Up Air damper, are on downstream sub panel from where the 240V breakers in question were added/moved. Also, since my fans and damper are all on different breakers, I would need to move 6 breakers in my house sub panel, and I don't know where to move them...

Replace your 240v dual-pole breakers with quad-pole breaker. You can have 2 240v devices to connect to the same breaker space.

[w00dy]

Update:

I was able to reset all of my Powerline devices and re-program them so that they now seem to be working correctly. The Envoy is still reporting data, and my fan system is working properly. I guess as long as I don't add anymore breakers to my main panel I should be good for now!

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Hopefully my hijacking of this thread was OK - it just seemed like a good place to share my problems!

Thanks for the help and suggestions