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  • Naptown
    Solar Fanatic
    • Feb 2011
    • 6880

    #31
    You must be in Baltimore or harford county.
    They are the only ones I know of that
    Enforce those rules. Most of the state is on the state fire code which exempts one and two family he's from that rule.
    However if they are referring to the IRC you can do the 3 feet at each end OR a 3' path in the center. In either case the path cannot be over a window or door.
    NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

    [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

    [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

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    Comment

    • Smitty
      Junior Member
      • Aug 2015
      • 20

      #32
      Correct! Harford County. The way the lady at the permit counter explained it to me was the entire perimeter of the array needed the 3 feet of set back. If that is the case, it greatly limits me. If I go with 325 watt panels I can just barely squeak by with 32 panels. I was hoping to be around 12kw and go the level two route with BGE.

      Comment

      • inetdog
        Super Moderator
        • May 2012
        • 9909

        #33
        Originally posted by Smitty
        Correct! Harford County. The way the lady at the permit counter explained it to me was the entire perimeter of the array needed the 3 feet of set back. If that is the case, it greatly limits me. If I go with 325 watt panels I can just barely squeak by with 32 panels. I was hoping to be around 12kw and go the level two route with BGE.
        I would look at the exact text of the local rule to confirm that you need the 3' clearance on the downhill side over the eaves too.
        Then see whether there is a procedure for the fire department to waive some of that requirement if there is another way (like other side of roof peak) to ventilate the same attic space safely.
        SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

        Comment

        • Naptown
          Solar Fanatic
          • Feb 2011
          • 6880

          #34
          Originally posted by Smitty
          Correct! Harford County. The way the lady at the permit counter explained it to me was the entire perimeter of the array needed the 3 feet of set back. If that is the case, it greatly limits me. If I go with 325 watt panels I can just barely squeak by with 32 panels. I was hoping to be around 12kw and go the level two route with BGE.
          Their website says they have adopted the 2013 Maryland state fire code which is basically the NFPA-1-2012
          The state code specifically exempts one and two family homes from the fire code. That said they are basing that on a local ammendment which takes the exclusion out ( the exclusion is at the beginning of the code on page 3 I believe.)
          Or it could be the IRC which gives you s choice of pathways.
          NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

          [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

          [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

          [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

          Comment

          • JFinch57
            Solar Fanatic
            • Feb 2015
            • 159

            #35
            I was also told by Harford County MD that they need 18" from all valleys. That would only make sense if you had panels on both sides but I didn't ask further. Also, tried to attach my approved line diagram that I did on Visio but there is no button!
            Jeff, BSEE, 22.3KW, 45-240W w/M190, 46-260W w/M250

            Comment

            • Naptown
              Solar Fanatic
              • Feb 2011
              • 6880

              #36
              The code says 18 " if both sides of valley have panels. If only one side than you can go right to the valley.
              That whole code as I read it comes from a memo from the chief building inspector. I could find no county council bill adopting that code provision into law.
              You may want to file an appeal and see where it goes.
              I had the same issue in Annapolis where they were enforcing the setbacks but we're on the same fire code as harford. I filed an appeal and they dropped it and approved it 2 days before the hearing.
              NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

              [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

              [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

              [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

              Comment

              • Naptown
                Solar Fanatic
                • Feb 2011
                • 6880

                #37
                Make them point out the provision in the codes. You have a right to see the written code.
                Last edited by Naptown; 08-22-2015, 10:45 AM.
                NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

                [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

                [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

                [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

                Comment

                • GreenTeeCrazy
                  Member
                  • Aug 2015
                  • 49

                  #38
                  Updated diagrams

                  One more time i need any suggestions or modifications to my drawings.

                  here are the updated files, they seem more professional than kindergarten ones.










                  Comment

                  • GreenTeeCrazy
                    Member
                    • Aug 2015
                    • 49

                    #39
                    Here are the .doc files for th eproposal work:
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                    • GreenTeeCrazy
                      Member
                      • Aug 2015
                      • 49

                      #40
                      Sorry i cant edit post!!!!!

                      more pics
                      these 2 are part of a doc file named "Overview Plan"


                      Comment

                      • Naptown
                        Solar Fanatic
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 6880

                        #41
                        Originally posted by GreenTeeCrazy
                        One more time i need any suggestions or modifications to my drawings.

                        here are the updated files, they seem more professional than kindergarten ones.










                        One line is confusing hard to tell what wires are in same conduit
                        From junction on roof to combiner panel should be 6 #10 and a # 6
                        ( neutral and ground can be combined as neutral is communications only and ground is not a current carrying conductor.
                        The attachment plan 2nd page shows not nearly enough attachment points.
                        Also when laying them out don't attach all the rails to one set of rafters. Alternate attachments to spread load out as much as possible using all rafters below the array.
                        Looks like you are in wind zone 2 on sides and 3 lower corners. These areas will need more attachment points.
                        NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

                        [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

                        [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

                        [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

                        Comment

                        • foo1bar
                          Solar Fanatic
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 1833

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Naptown
                          The attachment plan 2nd page shows not nearly enough attachment points.
                          Also when laying them out don't attach all the rails to one set of rafters.
                          .
                          4th page is attachment points - but the rafters on there aren't 16" (or the panels aren't typical 1 meter wide)

                          I agree that not attaching them all to one set of rafters would be better.
                          But you don't want to exceed the maximum cantilever or maximum span from ironridge's documentation either.
                          BTW, if you do have access to the bottom of the roof (ie. can see where you drilled through when (not if) you miss the rafter, it'll make your life a lot easier.
                          FWIW, I'd probably go with even less cantilever at the corners where I think you're most likely to get more uplift from wind.

                          I think with 3 of 1m panels you'll span over 8 of 16" OC rafters. (probably 9 because you'll have extra length of rails that aren't covered by panels.)
                          I think in the writeup you have 4 attachment points for each rail, so you'll be doing every-other rafter, and 4' between them for one spot.
                          If it's 8 rafters, I'd try have the bottom rail be on rafters 1,3,5,7 the top rail on rafters 2,4,6,8 - distributes the load a little. more across the structure.
                          If it's 9 rafters, I might do 1,3,5,8 and 2,4,6,9.
                          I think you might even be able to do 3 points per rail - but I didn't do any calculations or run it thorugh ironridge's calculator, so you'd need to do that. (I think 5.5' apart would meet the ironridge recommendation. Or 4' apart with 1' cantilever on each side.) Adding a 4th is going to be more work - slightly more risk of leaks. But definitely will be stronger tie to the bldg.

                          I saw on the plans "irreversible splice" for the ground in the Jbox on the roof.
                          Is that necessary?
                          I don't know enphase installation requirements - so I'm asking the question.

                          Comment

                          • GreenTeeCrazy
                            Member
                            • Aug 2015
                            • 49

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Naptown
                            One line is confusing hard to tell what wires are in same conduit
                            From junction on roof to combiner panel should be 6 #10 and a # 6
                            ( neutral and ground can be combined as neutral is communications only and ground is not a current carrying conductor.
                            The attachment plan 2nd page shows not nearly enough attachment points.
                            Also when laying them out don't attach all the rails to one set of rafters. Alternate attachments to spread load out as much as possible using all rafters below the array.
                            Looks like you are in wind zone 2 on sides and 3 lower corners. These areas will need more attachment points.
                            Thank you Naptown,

                            here is an update to 1 line diagram, i hope this will make more sense, watching Amy Schumer late at night and drawing is not fun
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by inetdog; 08-26-2015, 01:34 PM. Reason: fixed quote tag

                            Comment

                            • GreenTeeCrazy
                              Member
                              • Aug 2015
                              • 49

                              #44
                              Originally posted by foo1bar
                              4th page is attachment points - but the rafters on there aren't 16" (or the panels aren't typical 1 meter wide)

                              I agree that not attaching them all to one set of rafters would be better.
                              But you don't want to exceed the maximum cantilever or maximum span from ironridge's documentation either.
                              BTW, if you do have access to the bottom of the roof (ie. can see where you drilled through when (not if) you miss the rafter, it'll make your life a lot easier.
                              FWIW, I'd probably go with even less cantilever at the corners where I think you're most likely to get more uplift from wind.

                              I think with 3 of 1m panels you'll span over 8 of 16" OC rafters. (probably 9 because you'll have extra length of rails that aren't covered by panels.)
                              I think in the writeup you have 4 attachment points for each rail, so you'll be doing every-other rafter, and 4' between them for one spot.
                              If it's 8 rafters, I'd try have the bottom rail be on rafters 1,3,5,7 the top rail on rafters 2,4,6,8 - distributes the load a little. more across the structure.
                              If it's 9 rafters, I might do 1,3,5,8 and 2,4,6,9.
                              I think you might even be able to do 3 points per rail - but I didn't do any calculations or run it thorugh ironridge's calculator, so you'd need to do that. (I think 5.5' apart would meet the ironridge recommendation. Or 4' apart with 1' cantilever on each side.) Adding a 4th is going to be more work - slightly more risk of leaks. But definitely will be stronger tie to the bldg.

                              I saw on the plans "irreversible splice" for the ground in the Jbox on the roof.
                              Is that necessary?
                              I don't know enphase installation requirements - so I'm asking the question.
                              I'll add another PV page to show the the L-Foot flash connection points, btw you do have very valid point.

                              The rafters are 16" spacing,

                              Comment

                              • sdold
                                Moderator
                                • Jun 2014
                                • 1452

                                #45
                                Instead of writing "1-17 MODULES", which indicates you'll have some unknown number of modules, I'd write "MODULES #10-18". As an engineer who has to make a lot of drawings, things like that bug me.

                                Comment

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