Need advice on drawings

[GreenTeeCrazy]

Hello everyone,
I'll be installing a solar panel system on my roof, but 1st i have to apply for permit.
Here are few pics of my solar panel system drawing proposal for the town.

If anyone has any suggestion or correction that needs to be done PLEASE dont hesitate to mention it.
no matter how serious or silly it is., i need to get this perfect, so i dont have no issue with my town inspector.

Thanks

[sensij]

It depends on what your AHJ wants to see. You could be including more of the electrical calculations that show compliance to the NEC requirements you've considered. Also, grounding strategy should probably be included. Sometimes, fire rating is important as well. Have you tried asking your city for an example to follow?

[GreenTeeCrazy]

sensij, thanks for the quick reply, i spoke with my AHJ or the electrical inspector in my town, and i was told that he will reject
my permit if its the drawing is not done by a PE or electrical engineering firm!!! i am kinda furious about this, so i am trying to get all my i dotted and my tees crossed
before i submit my permit tomorrow.

As a homeowner, i should be able to do anything in my house without a contractor's assistant

[sensij]

I think you may be under-estimating the knowledge required to safely design and install a PV system. Looking just a bit closer, I think you'll find that the 20 A PV breaker you specified for the main panel is undersized... what calculation did you use?

[GreenTeeCrazy]

Enphase micro inverter M250 requires a 20 A breaker for every 16 inverter per string/branch.

I am using 2 strings of 9 panels/micro inverters, so 2 20 A per Enphase manual

I cant post link, but just google M250-LL2-60-S22

[GreenTeeCrazy]

Sorry, i could not edit my post

Edit: Main panel will have a double pole 20 A breaker based on the micro inverters amperage

[J.P.M.]

sensij, thanks for the quick reply, i spoke with my AHJ or the electrical inspector in my town, and i was told that he will reject
my permit if its the drawing is not done by a PE or electrical engineering firm!!! i am kinda furious about this, so i am trying to get all my i dotted and my tees crossed
before i submit my permit tomorrow.

As a homeowner, i should be able to do anything in my house without a contractor's assistant

Like'em or not, two rules that need to be followed: Rule #1: The inspector is always right. Rule #2, if the inspector is wrong, see rule #1.............................. FWIW, a couple of things I didn't see on your drawings was any reference to wind or seismic loading considerations, or any bolting/screw/fastener details........................................... . Also, sometimes/usually it helps to go to the AHJ before submittal. Often, believe it or not, building depts. can be quite helpful. One big reason they are there is to help ensure safety for not only you, but your neighbors and the rest of the community. They are not out to get you. They have better things to do............................................. You can do pretty much what you want to your property without a contractor's assistance, but only to the extent that what you do follows safe, recognized and allowable practices and applicable building and other codes.

[sensij]

Sorry, i could not edit my post

Edit: Main panel will have a double pole 20 A breaker based on the micro inverters amperage

I think you may be in over your head. Good luck.

[foo1bar]

i am trying to get all my i dotted and my tees crossed before i submit my permit tomorrow.

1> IMO the plans aren't very readable. I can't tell which lines are dimensions and what are denoting structures/materials.
2> Is there a requirement of 3' on each side of the ridge for fire setback? Throughout CA there is, and I think other places too.
3> The last attachment I am interpretting that as the "rafters" are every 16" OC running horizontal? That'd be really odd.
A> Are you sure it's 16" and not 24" OC? Many roofs are 24" OC - so if you haven't checked, check.
B> Almost always rafters are running with the slope of the roof, not across the slope.
C> I don't see how many attachment points/feet there are - or what is being used (ex. which quickmount product)) I didn't see a "Attachment points every 48 inches" or something similar. (Or are you doing attachment point on every single rafter?)
D> I assume there are multiple microinverters that aren't shown? IMO you need to show them. Do one page per roof face if necessary. Use color or grey fill to make it easy to differentiate between different things.
4> Make explicit the roof pitch - and/or include a photo or non-top-down drawing to show things. (I assume the ridge is between roof 1 and roof 2 - with downslope being to left on roof1 and to right on roof2) An isographic drawing could make that clear.
5> Do you have any vents/chimneys that you need to deal with (dryer vent, plumbing vent, cooking hood vent, bathroom fan vent, HW heater vent/chimney, furnace vent/chimney, etc.) If you're going to have to move them or work around them, put that in your plans.

I think this is a good example plan:

http://santaclaraca.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=1666

Obviously it'd be better to use as a starting point an example plan from your AHJ if they have one.
But if they don't have an example, I expect your AHJ would be happier with something that looked like that link, rather than what you've attached.

As a homeowner, i should be able to do anything in my house without a contractor's assistant

Without a contractor - sure.
Without proper engineering? No.
And what you said is basically that they require an engineer to approve/create the plans - which is not an onerous requirement IMO.
The structural portion you may be able to get enough from Ironridge and Quickmount.
The electrical portion you may be able to get enough documentation from Enphase since you're using them. That might be enough to make your AHJ happy. (And if not, it's probably less than $300 to get a plan written for you by someone. A vendor selling you panels, etc might even toss it in as a "free with purchase")

[GreenTeeCrazy]

Like'em or not, two rules that need to be followed: Rule #1: The inspector is always right. Rule #2, if the inspector is wrong, see rule #1.............................. FWIW, a couple of things I didn't see on your drawings was any reference to wind or seismic loading considerations, or any bolting/screw/fastener details........................................... . Also, sometimes/usually it helps to go to the AHJ before submittal. Often, believe it or not, building depts. can be quite helpful. One big reason they are there is to help ensure safety for not only you, but your neighbors and the rest of the community. They are not out to get you. They have better things to do............................................. You can do pretty much what you want to your property without a contractor's assistance, but only to the extent that what you do follows safe, recognized and allowable practices and applicable building and other codes.

Hi J.P.M., thatns for your comment.
I actually did contacted the town and they have no clue to what is required from a homeowner diy solar installation, they always had contractors doing
the work for the homeowners. as i said before, i do my own repair, upgrade in my home, water heater, gas line, boiler, driveway, fence, generator and so on.
and i always apply for permits and have my work inspected by the AHJ inspector. My famil's safety is my first priority.

I do have more building drawing but in different pc, and i dont have access to them right now. but i did all the calculation for wind, snow load, rafters spacing and more diagrams on setbacks from gutters etc.

I just want to make sure that is the inspector denies my application is because of valid point but not that i didnt hire a PE for their seals and stamps.

sensij, thanks for your input.

[GreenTeeCrazy]

1> IMO the plans aren't very readable. I can't tell which lines are dimensions and what are denoting structures/materials.
2> Is there a requirement of 3' on each side of the ridge for fire setback? Throughout CA there is, and I think other places too.
3> The last attachment I am interpretting that as the "rafters" are every 16" OC running horizontal? That'd be really odd.
A> Are you sure it's 16" and not 24" OC? Many roofs are 24" OC - so if you haven't checked, check.
B> Almost always rafters are running with the slope of the roof, not across the slope.
C> I don't see how many attachment points/feet there are - or what is being used (ex. which quickmount product)) I didn't see a "Attachment points every 48 inches" or something similar. (Or are you doing attachment point on every single rafter?)
D> I assume there are multiple microinverters that aren't shown? IMO you need to show them. Do one page per roof face if necessary. Use color or grey fill to make it easy to differentiate between different things.
4> Make explicit the roof pitch - and/or include a photo or non-top-down drawing to show things. (I assume the ridge is between roof 1 and roof 2 - with downslope being to left on roof1 and to right on roof2) An isographic drawing could make that clear.
5> Do you have any vents/chimneys that you need to deal with (dryer vent, plumbing vent, cooking hood vent, bathroom fan vent, HW heater vent/chimney, furnace vent/chimney, etc.) If you're going to have to move them or work around them, put that in your plans.

I think this is a good example plan:

http://santaclaraca.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=1666

Obviously it'd be better to use as a starting point an example plan from your AHJ if they have one.
But if they don't have an example, I expect your AHJ would be happier with something that looked like that link, rather than what you've attached.



Without a contractor - sure.
Without proper engineering? No.
And what you said is basically that they require an engineer to approve/create the plans - which is not an onerous requirement IMO.
The structural portion you may be able to get enough from Ironridge and Quickmount.
The electrical portion you may be able to get enough documentation from Enphase since you're using them. That might be enough to make your AHJ happy. (And if not, it's probably less than $300 to get a plan written for you by someone. A vendor selling you panels, etc might even toss it in as a "free with purchase")

VERY informative post, exactly what i was looking for, much appreciated.
- I'll redo my drawing with more colors if it will make the town inspector happy.
- Rafters spacing is 16", old house, older than me.
Rafters with double dotted lines (Vertical) while rails (Horizontal) with single line..... color will be used in the next drawing for better
- To do: quick mount point installation with spacing between them, 4 quick mount connection per rail.
- One roof per drawing, very good idea.

My house is split level, so the ridge is horizontal next to the chimney, (Will be corrected with color) the valley is between the 2 roofs.

You did open my eyes to so many unclear lines in my drawing.
The link is absolutely great, i'll see if i can include it in my permit app with some modifications

Thank again

Drawing will be updated soon

[solarfrank]

Some AHJ requires wet stamp plans by the structural engineer and also signature of the C10 license holder or wet stamp from the electrical engineer.
18 Enphase M 250 , each one at 1A @ 240 V, 18x1 A x 1.25 =22.5 A next available breaker 2 pole 25 A . Good luck with you project.

[foo1bar]

VERY informative post, exactly what i was looking for, much appreciated.
- I'll redo my drawing with more colors if it will make the town inspector happy.

I think it'd make things much clearer.

- To do: quick mount point installation with spacing between them, 4 quick mount connection per rail.

I would include:
* Rafters are 16" OC
* Rails will have minimum of 4 attachment points per rail, 48" between feet and no more than 24" cantilever.
(Or whatever Ironridge's design assistant says is OK for span/cantilever. )

My house is split level, so the ridge is horizontal next to the chimney, (Will be corrected with color) the valley is between the 2 roofs.

I *think* you are saying that on your plans between roof1 and roof2 is a valley (running roughly North-South) - but that wouldn't make sense for your drawings showing the rain gutters.
I'd definitely recommend either an aerial shot of your house (from google maps/earth or from 2nd story window across the street) or an isographic drawing.
Even a street level picture with panels photoshopped in would help establish what you're doing.

BTW - I didn't see on the plans an indication of where your combiner will be physically placed.

Good luck

[Mike90250]

1) Plans may need to show grounding details
a) frame
b) electrical safety

2) Enphase inverters. Why ? Do you have shade issues from trees south of you ? Otherwise, I'd suggest 1 or 2 String inverters. Yes, you get DC wires with that, but you don't have to pull 3 panels to replace 1 bad inverter next year.

[GreenTeeCrazy]

1) Plans may need to show grounding details
a) frame
b) electrical safety

2) Enphase inverters. Why ? Do you have shade issues from trees south of you ? Otherwise, I'd suggest 1 or 2 String inverters. Yes, you get DC wires with that, but you don't have to pull 3 panels to replace 1 bad inverter next year.

I did miss grounding from my drawing, but now that you mention it... i'll be adding it to the One-Line electrical drawing

I am not quite sure what you meant by electrical safety?

Enphase inverters were my preference of choice for their easy configuration and the ability to access and check the performance of each one from a web browser.

I think it'd make things much clearer.


I would include:
* Rafters are 16" OC
* Rails will have minimum of 4 attachment points per rail, 48" between feet and no more than 24" cantilever.
(Or whatever Ironridge's design assistant says is OK for span/cantilever. )


I *think* you are saying that on your plans between roof1 and roof2 is a valley (running roughly North-South) - but that wouldn't make sense for your drawings showing the rain gutters.
I'd definitely recommend either an aerial shot of your house (from google maps/earth or from 2nd story window across the street) or an isographic drawing.
Even a street level picture with panels photoshopped in would help establish what you're doing.

BTW - I didn't see on the plans an indication of where your combiner will be physically placed.

Good luck

Again you came through with more pin-point diagnostics. I' need to improve my drawing so anyone can have an idea of what they are looking at.
I'll also be contacting my vendor for their assistance.

Some AHJ requires wet stamp plans by the structural engineer and also signature of the C10 license holder or wet stamp from the electrical engineer.
18 Enphase M 250 , each one at 1A @ 240 V, 18x1 A x 1.25 =22.5 A next available breaker 2 pole 25 A . Good luck with you project.

Enphase M250 has a limit of 16 micro inverters per string. 16*1.25=20
I have 2 strings of 9 inverters. 9*1.25=11.25 but my system will come shipped with 20 A breaker.

I think some AHJ are more toward helping contractors than homeowners

But i just need to keep a positive attitude and start from scratch again.