My Solar System for Home

[john95]

Hello,
I am John, I'm new here and I'd like to make some friends. This is my first post:

Summer power consumption is 22kWh ~ 36kWh daily.
I live in California
I charge my electric car daily
2 bedroom house
Plenty of sun light
Planning on OFF the grid system

Solar Home System Project:

1-) 4 x 250w 24v Poly by Axitec (1,000w x 6hrs. per day= 6kWh) $1,500
2-) Aims 3,000w 24v Inverter $900
3-) 8 x DEKA 8L16 Solar Battery 6v 370 AH (17.76kWh Storage charge) $319 x 8= $2,552
4-) Outback Flexmax 80 FM80 Charge Controller $550
5-) Circuit Breaker Box & Wire $200

Total $5,702

Questions on each component:

1-) May I connect an inverter on the solar panels to charge my battery bank faster, if so, which would be the best effective way to do it?
2-) Have you had any experience with this Aims inverter or do you suggest a better option?
3-) So far, I have found these Deka batteries to be the most cost effective for amps vs. other expensive solar batteries like the LiFePO4 Lithium Iron Phosphate 25.6v Battery w/ BMS 10ah 240wh which will store only 1.92kWh vs. 17.76kWh. Any other battery that will be better than the DEKA 8L16? I’d like to store at least 40kWh per day. How could achieve this effectively?
4-) Have you had any experience with this charge controller, if so, do you recommend other options?
5-) Which Circuit breaker box do you recommend? I need at least one with 16 slots/breakers.

I'd really appreciate any ideas.

Thanks for help.

[Naptown]

On a good day you might get a bit over 4kwh after all the losses.
Most days not so much.
And why off grid it will be more expensive per kWh than buying from the utility

[SunEagle]

The battery system required to store 40kWh per day (and sized for 4 days storage) would need to be a 48volt 3500Ah system. That is ten times the size of those 8 370Ah batteries.

If you decide to stay with those 8 batteries wired for 24volt @ 740Ah, then 1000 watts of panels is not enough. You would need about 2000 watts of panels to properly charge the battery system.

And that battery system will still only get you about 4kWh per day so that $6000 estimate is way too low for what you will need to run your home off grid.

[john95]

On a good day you might get a bit over 4kwh after all the losses.
Most days not so much.
And why off grid it will be more expensive per kWh than buying from the utility

Do you think I should stay grid tied for a while and then eventually go off the grid?
Is in it the same as buying less power from the utility company while using power from a separate solar system?
I may run the less demanding things like lights, TVs, radio, etc. and use the more demanding things from the grid.

[john95]

The battery system required to store 40kWh per day (and sized for 4 days storage) would need to be a 48volt 3500Ah system. That is ten times the size of those 8 370Ah batteries.

If you decide to stay with those 8 batteries wired for 24volt @ 740Ah, then 1000 watts of panels is not enough. You would need about 2000 watts of panels to properly charge the battery system.

And that battery system will still only get you about 4kWh per day so that $6000 estimate is way too low for what you will need to run your home off grid.

What about this:

1-) 12 x 250w 24v Poly by Axitec (3,000w x 6hrs. per day= 18kWh) $4,500
2-) Aims 3,000w 24v Inverter $900
3-) 16 x DEKA 8L16 Solar Battery 6v 370 AH 2 sets of 8 batteries wired for 48v 370 x 2 = 740 x 48 = (35.52 kWh Storage charge) $319 x 16= $5,504
4-) Outback Flexmax 80 FM80 Charge Controller $550
5-) Circuit Breaker Box & Wire $200

Total of $11,254

If I save some electricity usage on the house I I don't charge the electric car I may be ok.

[ButchDeal]

What about this:

1-) 12 x 250w 24v Poly by Axitec (3,000w x 6hrs. per day= 18kWh) $4,500
2-) Aims 3,000w 24v Inverter $900
3-) 16 x DEKA 8L16 Solar Battery 6v 370 AH 2 sets of 8 batteries wired for 48v 370 x 2 = 740 x 48 = (35.52 kWh Storage charge) $319 x 16= $5,504
4-) Outback Flexmax 80 FM80 Charge Controller $550
5-) Circuit Breaker Box & Wire $200

Total of $11,254

If I save some electricity usage on the house I I don't charge the electric car I may be ok.

get an outback inverter instead or integrated system like FlexPower 1 and you can have a much more efficient bimodal system instead of offgrid only.

[john95]

get an outback inverter instead or integrated system like FlexPower 1 and you can have a much more efficient bimodal system instead of offgrid only.

Do you mean this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Outback-Power-FP1-VFX3524-Pre-Wired-Integrated/dp/B008AYBOK8

[inetdog]

Do you think I should stay grid tied for a while and then eventually go off the grid?
Is in it the same as buying less power from the utility company while using power from a separate solar system?
I may run the less demanding things like lights, TVs, radio, etc. and use the more demanding things from the grid.

Since what has been said is that when you include the cost of battery replacement your off grid costs you more per kWh than you pay for grid power, it does not make sense to disconnect from the grid ever, unless you are willing to pay a lot of money to make a political statement.
"Grid parity", the point at which you can generate and store energy less expensively than buying it from the grid or using a pure GTI system is not here yet.
In some specific areas, like Hawaii, where POCO costs are high and GTI installation is restricted, we are close to grid parity, but not until battery systems go down at least 40% in price per kWh over the battery lifespan.

[thejq]

Do you think I should stay grid tied for a while and then eventually go off the grid?
Is in it the same as buying less power from the utility company while using power from a separate solar system?
I may run the less demanding things like lights, TVs, radio, etc. and use the more demanding things from the grid.

Sounds like you have access to the grid, so why do you want to go off grid (or even partially)? If you install a grid tied system and get on to net metering, the grid is your battery. You get credit for over producing, and use it when under producing. The utility company maintains your "battery", the grid, at nominal cost (your monthly bill). It's much cheaper that way. The cost of off-grid battery and maintenance is way more than the cost of staying connected to the grid. Especially you now have an EV, you can get on to one of EV-TOU plans where in the summer the over-production credit during the day is almost 3x the cost of charging at night. So you can have a relatively small solar system, and use a lot more than what your system can produce.

[SunEagle]

What about this: 1-) 12 x 250w 24v Poly by Axitec (3,000w x 6hrs. per day= 18kWh) $4,500 2-) Aims 3,000w 24v Inverter $900 3-) 16 x DEKA 8L16 Solar Battery 6v 370 AH 2 sets of 8 batteries wired for 48v 370 x 2 = 740 x 48 = (35.52 kWh Storage charge) $319 x 16= $5,504 4-) Outback Flexmax 80 FM80 Charge Controller $550 5-) Circuit Breaker Box & Wire $200 Total of $11,254 If I save some electricity usage on the house I I don't charge the electric car I may be ok.

Well a battery system that can store 35kWh can really only use at most in one day about 25% of that. So that is about 8.5kWh which doesn't cover 1/3 of your usage. If you use more then 25% a day the batteries life is shortened and you will be replacing them in a couple of years instead of 4 or 5 years.------------------------- My big question is how much is electricity costing you from your POCO? Even if it is above $0.50/kWh the cost of a kWh from a battery system is 2 to 3 times as much. You will not save any money going off grid unless the POCO is charging you more than $1.50/kWh. ----------- If you want to go with solar and save money the best path is to install a legally approved grid tie system. For people in CA the payback is less than 8 years.

[ButchDeal]

Do you mean this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Outback-Power-.../dp/B008AYBOK8

That is a 24v model, I think you are looking for a 48v system from the battery configuration you listed, but yes the flexpower1 is simplest and most integrated way to an integrated bimodal.

[john95]

Since what has been said is that when you include the cost of battery replacement your off grid costs you more per kWh than you pay for grid power, it does not make sense to disconnect from the grid ever, unless you are willing to pay a lot of money to make a political statement.
"Grid parity", the point at which you can generate and store energy less expensively than buying it from the grid or using a pure GTI system is not here yet.
In some specific areas, like Hawaii, where POCO costs are high and GTI installation is restricted, we are close to grid parity, but not until battery systems go down at least 40% in price per kWh over the battery lifespan.

Your point is very interesting though, however, I already tried by going grid tie and the money to pay is about $25K ~ $35K commitment. Some people have had terrible experiences where the solar system does not generate power for whatever reason and they end up paying for the solar system and the utility company at the same time. So they get 2 bills in stead of one, plus all the frustrations of dealing with the utility company and the company who is selling/leasing/partially selling/leasing the solar system. There are many things that can go wrong and the worse thing is that you cannot put your hands on it because you need to be a certified electrician, certified this, certified that, etc.
I want to have full 100% control of my solar system. I don't want to be calling some certified assshole and wait days or weeks until he wants to come to service or fix my system.
If I continue using the grid alone I'll have to pay about $51K (or more with life cost increments) for use of electricity for 25 years. So even if I'd spend $25K now, It still will be half of what I would pay during 25 years buying from the utility company. And because I have an EV they want to charge me more per kWh. What about when I have to charge 4 EVs?
Guess what, the sun has plenty of energy and it's free.

[john95]

Sounds like you have access to the grid, so why do you want to go off grid (or even partially)? If you install a grid tied system and get on to net metering, the grid is your battery. You get credit for over producing, and use it when under producing. The utility company maintains your "battery", the grid, at nominal cost (your monthly bill). It's much cheaper that way. The cost of off-grid battery and maintenance is way more than the cost of staying connected to the grid. Especially you now have an EV, you can get on to one of EV-TOU plans where in the summer the over-production credit during the day is almost 3x the cost of charging at night. So you can have a relatively small solar system, and use a lot more than what your system can produce.

Am I going to be able to do it my self by doing the labor and choosing my components or do I have to hire someone to sell me whatever he has left in his truck from the last installation that he did?

[john95]

Well a battery system that can store 35kWh can really only use at most in one day about 25% of that. So that is about 8.5kWh which doesn't cover 1/3 of your usage. If you use more then 25% a day the batteries life is shortened and you will be replacing them in a couple of years instead of 4 or 5 years.------------------------- My big question is how much is electricity costing you from your POCO? Even if it is above $0.50/kWh the cost of a kWh from a battery system is 2 to 3 times as much. You will not save any money going off grid unless the POCO is charging you more than $1.50/kWh. ----------- If you want to go with solar and save money the best path is to install a legally approved grid tie system. For people in CA the payback is less than 8 years.

If you do proper maintenance to batteries they last for ever. I may make my own batteries if I have to. Also, there are people working already on a cheap battery for solar that last twice as much of current solar batteries at the same price. Battery technology has to get better for solar and for EVs.

http://www.technologyreview.com/demo/524466/storing-the-sun/

[john95]

That is a 24v model, I think you are looking for a 48v system from the battery configuration you listed, but yes the flexpower1 is simplest and most integrated way to an integrated bimodal.

You are right! it's this one:

http://www.amazon.com/OutBack-Power-VFX3648-Vented-Inverter/dp/B002MWAAYU/ref=pd_sim_sbs_422_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1VN8SWFJJE3J092GDYFH