Solar Edge Vs Enphase Power optimizers

[SunEagle]

Yeah, that is a problem with string inverters in NEC 2014 areas... Fronius sells one, although I don't know what it costs.

I believe most of the string inverter manufacturers are scrambling to provide a device that meets the NEC 2014 "rapid shut down" requirements that is located up on the roof within 10 feet of the array.

[tehan]

I believe most of the string inverter manufacturers are scrambling to provide a device that meets the NEC 2014 "rapid shut down" requirements that is located up on the roof within 10 feet of the array.

Most of them have something now, either self-developed or third-party, but all of these solutions are quite expensive. I found that once you added this cost into the mix, SolarEdge ended up a bit cheaper than any of the string inverters.

[solarix]

Ya, the rapid shutdown rule will be a major advantage for the distributed type inverters. That code rule has not achieved widespread adoption yet but will be yet another major p.i.t.a when it does.
It has always seemed to me that there is a lot more interest by the authorities in being able to shut off the "evil" solar power six ways to Sunday, instead of making sure our clean, renewable resource becomes widely available.

[tehan]

Ya, the rapid shutdown rule will be a major advantage for the distributed type inverters. That code rule has not achieved widespread adoption yet but will be yet another major p.i.t.a when it does..

Last time I checked it was a little more than half of all states have implemented NEC 2014. But many of the biggest solar markers (e.g. CA, FL) have not, so the impact on the solar industry is less than that might otherwise suggest.

[solar_newbie]

Some installers cover labor. My installer warranty covers enphase micros for 20 years labor in addition to the 25 year manufacturer warranty on parts.

I got an installer provide 25 years labor coverag. The question is if he is still alive in 25 years...

[bcroe]

Ya, the rapid shutdown rule will be a major advantage for the distributed type inverters. That code rule has not achieved widespread adoption yet but will be yet another major p.i.t.a when it does.
It has always seemed to me that there is a lot more interest by the authorities in being able to shut off the "evil" solar power six ways to Sunday, instead of making sure our clean, renewable resource becomes widely available.

There is no problem for a ground mounted system. Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

Ya, the rapid shutdown rule will be a major advantage for the distributed type inverters. That code rule has not achieved widespread adoption yet but will be yet another major p.i.t.a when it does.
It has always seemed to me that there is a lot more interest by the authorities in being able to shut off the "evil" solar power six ways to Sunday, instead of making sure our clean, renewable resource becomes widely available.

The newest NEC has never been immediately adopted by every state. It sometimes takes years to get it followed because by law they are allowed to review it before just adopting it.

Believe me when I say the rapid shutdown requirement is not a tool for the "evil" power company to cut your power generation but a rule to provide SAFETY for the first responders that are trying to put out a fire and save your home.

With out that shutdown function someone can easily be exposed to DC voltage high enough to kill you.

Of course the first repsonders can just protect themselves and just let the house burn but then you would be pissed off at them instead of your POCO.

[solarix]

If the first responders were really concerned with safety, they would do something like outlaw open flame in households which in our modern world is totally unnecessary and would eliminate thousands and thousands of fires every year. But open flame is such a well established tradition that the safety planners could never get that through so they pick on the new solar technology and what-if it to death even though it is an infinitesimal safety issue.

[SunEagle]

If the first responders were really concerned with safety, they would do something like outlaw open flame in households which in our modern world is totally unnecessary and would eliminate thousands and thousands of fires every year. But open flame is such a well established tradition that the safety planners could never get that through so they pick on the new solar technology and what-if it to death even though it is an infinitesimal safety issue.

Open flame is not the number one reason for house fires. There is a high percentage of fires due to people smoking in bed along with using electric heaters too close to burnable fabrics. On top of that you still get idiots that over load their home receptacle circuits.

I would think that open flame causing home fires is way down the list of fire hazards. Now if you look at forest fires then yes open flame fire pits have caused a lot of them along with lightning strikes.

[Amenda]

I really fell for the SolarEdge design when it first came out and installed them almost exclusively for about 18 months until they started to drop like flies. Out of the 30 systems I've got out there (including one on my place), so far I've had 3 inverter failures (2 absolutely blow up inside), and about 20 Powerbox (they call them optimizers now) failures. Of course, these were the early product and we're in hot Arizona. They have redesigned everything and the new stuff is doing well - so far. I knew from the beginning the danger of SolarEdge being a startup company but took a chance on them anyway and got burned. I still use SolarEdge for jobs that have real shading problems but now that we have SunnyBoys with dual MPPT inputs, I rarely need to.

I'm just curious, deeply appreciate if you can share with me the following enquires that i have,

1) what are the inverter failures that you have encountered? (which model are you using?)
2) What failures did you faced when using the solaredge optimizer (which model are you using?)

[Amenda]

Does Solaredge optimizer required any additional grounding for the metal plate that is attached to the optimizer ?

[solarix]

1) what are the inverter failures that you have encountered? (which model are you using?)

I've installed maybe 20 SolarEdge systems - all but two the older models. Haven't had any failures with the new model.
2 failures of the inverter just quitting, 2 failures where the big capacitors inside exploded making a mess of it.


2) What failures did you faced when using the solaredge optimizer (which model are you using?)

I think at least 10 failures of the optimizers (the older ones were called powerboxes). They just quit working, but do allow the string current to pass through so it doesn't affect the rest of the system. What really concerned me was every time we removed an optimizer, the plastic on the MC4 connectors they used just snaps right off leaving a hole in the case! Of course, this is Arizona, but these units were all under the PV modules in the shade at least. I learned a long time ago that our dry climate just dries out the resin in most plastics and make them brittle. I know for a fact that all the early powerboxes I installed are going to fail sooner or later.

[emartin00]

Does Solaredge optimizer required any additional grounding for the metal plate that is attached to the optimizer ?

Yes. Depending on the rail system you are using, you can use WEEBs or other approved grounding methods.

[cebury]

Ya, the rapid shutdown rule will be a major advantage for the distributed type inverters. That code rule has not achieved widespread adoption yet but will be yet another major p.i.t.a when it does.
.

So I'm in CA and I hadn't even considered this in costs of string vs. SE. If I install SMA string today, upon later adoption of NEC 2014 they wouldn't dare (your SWAG) require compliance? In almost all other code situations, usually it's just until next permit is pulled?

If there is a chance they'll require all existing systems be compliant, this sounds like a big consideration today (and a huge headache for the thousands of residential PV users).

[SunEagle]

So I'm in CA and I hadn't even considered this in costs of string vs. SE. If I install SMA string today, upon later adoption of NEC 2014 they wouldn't dare (your SWAG) require compliance? In almost all other code situations, usually it's just until next permit is pulled?

If there is a chance they'll require all existing systems be compliant, this sounds like a big consideration today (and a huge headache for the thousands of residential PV users).

Rarely will anyone be forced to bring up an existing electrical system to meet the current code. It is only when that existing system is modified or changed that the latest code requirements need to be met.

Although there are some areas of building codes that require existing facilities to be updated. Due to new hires some buildings must meet the new ADA code to allow safe and easy passage (including restrooms) for people that require wheel chairs.