What's the longest break-even point you'd accept for a solar system?

[foo1bar]

You can not go into solar-power thinking there will be some financial gain.

For me, there is.

~$130/mon savings on electric bill for life of the system

~$4k this year in net expenses.

Guessing ~$2k in 10 years to replace the inverter

Probably will be one of my better investments for this year.

[J.P.M.]

Absolutely true, but the same is generally true regarding owning your own home free and clear. It is the goal of many people but probably not the best place to concentrate your wealth from an economic standpoint. It is however very good for peace of mind, knowing that whatever happens to your job, pension, inflation, or rental rates that you have a paid-for place to live (and paid-for electricity with solar). It's also a better financial decision than spending most of your money on rent and electric bills then blowing the rest on lattes, big screen TV's and beer.

Comparing a possible poor choice to a bad choice does not necessarily turn the poor choice into a good one.

Most life style choices are made on an emotional basis.

That may/may not be the best method, but it is often reality. I'm not saying everything can be reduced to a dollar sign, in spite of the way things seem to be going. In fact, IMO only, and sadly, most things are knee jerk, emotional responses to short term needs or shortsighted, myopic thinking.

That it is usually so is probably more de facto reality than opinion, and absolutely none of my business, but it doesn't need to be that way all the time. To me, the sad part is, it could be so much better for so little effort.

[Rdjntx]

You can not go into solar-power thinking there will be some financial gain.

100% true. Part of my initial attraction was the possibility of actually making a few bucks. as I looked into it, it turned out to be not so much. the guy who sold me my system even said "you will not make any real money off of this system, MAYBE a few bucks a year.

[hkazemi]

Perhaps one other way to approach the situation is to look at the cost of a solar electric system like an investment situation where you have a sum of money and you want to make it work the hardest (have the greatest financial return) over some time period, say, 10 years, or 15, or whatever. The task then becomes one of examining alternate investment opportunities (options) and, because the future is unknown, making some intelligent, objective guesses as to what those options will do over the course of your selected time frame. Then, line those comparisons up and the one that has the largest accumulated benefit is the winner. For example, Do I spend $25K on a solar system that will eliminate my $2,500/yr. electric bill for 20 years and then I move, or do I invest that $25K in, say, a corporate bond that yields, say, 3%/yr. for 20 years and then returns my $25K ?

Other factors
-risk (real and perceived) with each of the options: owning solar vs. owning bonds. Expected longevity of the equipment.
-having paid off property vs. renting and investing money elsewhere. Some prefer to owe nothing to others and not have others owe them. Others prefer to owe and be owed.
-perspectives on independence vs. dependence
-tax preferences (credits available now may change)
-a never ending utility bill payment is similar to making interest-only loan payments. There is light at end of the tunnel if one finances solar their solar project. If the monthly payments are the same, and the solar payment (with an end in sight) means the utility payment (with no end) is gone...why not?
-not everything needs a payback, some things meet personal goals/wishes: hottub, new boat, new car, swimming pool, 90" 4K HD TV, cruises, vacations
-use as a hedge against electric energy price spikes by locking in an acceptable rate
-perspectives on environmental issues (this may actually guide which equipment is chosen: some is produced by companies that are public about how their processes minimize environmental impact)
-local housing market acceptance and understanding of residential solar, and effect on home prices (this also relates to the expected time to continue to own the property)

5 years is a sweet spot and anything above 10 years takes much more dedication to the cause. Above 20 years and now one is into mortgage territory and things that could be considered lifetime, very long term capital investments (like the construction of an energy efficient home itself). The acceptable period will vary with the chosen equipment and expected product lifetime and warranty. Even no name products with no warranty will move if they're thought to be good enough for their asking price.

[Alisobob]

....the guy who sold me my system even said "you will not make any real money off of this system, MAYBE a few bucks a year.

100% false.

My system has a 5 year pay off.... ( I either would have spent the same $15k with SCE, or my solar installer)

In year 6 ( and beyond.....) I would have still spent $3k with SCE, but instead will spend zero.

Some would say my solar system didnt generate electricity... its generated $3,000

You dont call that "real money".

Leasers pay forever...... no thanks.

[organic farmer]

100% false.

My system has a 5 year pay off.... ( I either would have spent the same $15k with SCE, or my solar installer)

In year 6 ( and beyond.....) I would have still spent $3k with SCE, but instead will spend zero.

Some would say my solar system didnt generate electricity... its generated $3,000

You dont call that "real money".

Leasers pay forever...... no thanks.

In my state, they do not allow you to 'sell' your electricity.

You will pay a lot extra to be grid-tied. You may put power onto the grid, that you get 'credit' for, and you may use that much power from the grid later. But the grid will never pay you a dime.

You pay fees to be connected to be grid-tied [monthly and annual fees];
And you pay transmission taxes on the power as you put it onto the grid;
And you pay transmission taxes on any power that you pull from the grid;
And you pay the generation taxes on any power that you pull from the grid.

[Alisobob]

You pay fees to be connected to be grid-tied [monthly and annual fees];
And you pay transmission taxes on the power as you put it onto the grid;
And you pay transmission taxes on any power that you pull from the grid;
And you pay the generation taxes on any power that you pull from the grid.

Yea.... its pretty staggering... $1.70 a month.

solar61.JPG

[paris401]

Yea.... its pretty staggering... $1.70 a month.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6642[/ATTACH]

holy cow.... where d u live???? I'm moving there

[solarix]

As far as investments go, solar can be pretty good. Assuming you're in a solar friendly part of the country with good resource and/or high electric rates it is pretty common to see over 10% ROI and the good part is this is low risk. Any other investment with this kind of return is going to have much higher risk with it. You know you are going to use the electricity, the solar production is very predictable - the savings are a sure thing. Problem is you can't scale it up - you only need so much electricity and you can't sell the excess - so the investment potential is quite limited.

[organic farmer]

Yea.... its pretty staggering... $1.70 a month.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6642[/ATTACH]

If you pay $100 - $150/month for grid electricity; then $40k into grid-tied net-metering and you can be paying only $30/month.

But $30/month is the lowest I have heard of anyone paying around here. [Assuming that you produce enough surplus].

[J.P.M.]

Other factors
-risk (real and perceived) with each of the options: owning solar vs. owning bonds. Expected longevity of the equipment.
-having paid off property vs. renting and investing money elsewhere. Some prefer to owe nothing to others and not have others owe them. Others prefer to owe and be owed.
-perspectives on independence vs. dependence
-tax preferences (credits available now may change)
-a never ending utility bill payment is similar to making interest-only loan payments. There is light at end of the tunnel if one finances solar their solar project. If the monthly payments are the same, and the solar payment (with an end in sight) means the utility payment (with no end) is gone...why not?
-not everything needs a payback, some things meet personal goals/wishes: hottub, new boat, new car, swimming pool, 90" 4K HD TV, cruises, vacations
-use as a hedge against electric energy price spikes by locking in an acceptable rate
-perspectives on environmental issues (this may actually guide which equipment is chosen: some is produced by companies that are public about how their processes minimize environmental impact)
-local housing market acceptance and understanding of residential solar, and effect on home prices (this also relates to the expected time to continue to own the property)

5 years is a sweet spot and anything above 10 years takes much more dedication to the cause. Above 20 years and now one is into mortgage territory and things that could be considered lifetime, very long term capital investments (like the construction of an energy efficient home itself). The acceptable period will vary with the chosen equipment and expected product lifetime and warranty. Even no name products with no warranty will move if they're thought to be good enough for their asking price.

All of the above factors and as many more as a situation calls for are part of what is ignored when things are done in what I described as a "knee jerk.........." reaction.
Every situation is different.
My point was that, IMO only, most folks do not take as much time or thought as would be necessary if they were trying to do what's best in their own interests.
Another way of saying it: If managers of companies made long term decisions for their companies the way most homeowners made decisions about solar equipment, the managers would be walking the streets in short order.

[J.P.M.]

If you pay $100 - $150/month for grid electricity; then $40k into grid-tied net-metering and you can be paying only $30/month.

But $30/month is the lowest I have heard of anyone paying around here. [Assuming that you produce enough surplus].

Every situation is different. Not everyone is in ME or as self reliant as you.

[Sunking]

If managers of companies made long term decisions for their companies the way most homeowners made decisions about solar equipment, the managers would be walking the streets in short order.

Yep we call them Politicians, Teachers, and Academics.

[Rdjntx]

so my sales guys never said that?
his statement hasn't been proven over my almost 3 years experience with my 10Kw system?
it couldn't possibly have anything to do with your state having different rules, or whatever that makes your system different?

Tell me oh wise one, were you there when we had the conversation? have you seen my bills, or my production figures?

how about you take your 100% false and ...

Generating "money" is meant in the sense of making real money. 3k a year isn't squat when all you are doing is producing just enough to cover YOUR OWN damn bills. When we talk about generating money we are talking about over and above your own needs. you make that 3k PLUS 3 or 5k ADDITIONAL and you can toss around your "100%" false with some credibility. as it stands now, you have none

100% false.

My system has a 5 year pay off.... ( I either would have spent the same $15k with SCE, or my solar installer)

In year 6 ( and beyond.....) I would have still spent $3k with SCE, but instead will spend zero.

Some would say my solar system didnt generate electricity... its generated $3,000

You dont call that "real money".

Leasers pay forever...... no thanks.

[scrippsbruin96]

100% false.

My system has a 5 year pay off.... ( I either would have spent the same $15k with SCE, or my solar installer)

In year 6 ( and beyond.....) I would have still spent $3k with SCE, but instead will spend zero.

Some would say my solar system didnt generate electricity... its generated $3,000

You dont call that "real money".

Leasers pay forever...... no thanks.

I agree, planned for 5 year ROI for the system as well.

But with the TOU and an EV now running on the sun, ROI may be half that at this point.