Connecting Solar System Ground To House's Ground Rods?

[nova]

Well consider what lightening rods do on roof tops,

He did say to protect the area around the array I believe.

So how about putting a few rods near the array and run the big cables (not #6) to ground rod(s)

That makes sense to me what do you think about that idea?

[thastinger]

Interesting video but the guy doesn't know anything about internal combustion engines. Yes, you should not use higher octane fuel than what the engine requires but not because it will "damage" the engine, because higher octane fuel burns slower (what gives it more resistance to detonation) and thus will likely give reduced performance and decreased fuel eco. Some of the most modern engine management systems will adjust engine timing based on octane, so even my argument is becoming less and less relevant.

Anyways, I wonder if I should remove my 6Ga copper wire from my array to my ground rods, I initially didn't have it but the inspector wanted one there so I put one in. I certainly follow the logic of Mr. Holt because now I have provided a path for the lightning to reach my internal equipment (CC,Inverter etc) from the outside lightning strike source (the array itself). If left ungrounded, the PV array should have the same potential as the building itself, by adding the ground rod, I've given the lightning bolt a target...experts concur?

[nova]

Interesting, you do not ground the array....

great link

[sdold]

I just finished watching an excellent Mike Holt video that is related to this, there is even a solar example at 17 minutes in.

Moderators, I hope this is OK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNZC782SzAQ

[organic farmer]

I never said not to ground them.

I said you cannot have isolated or separate Ground Electrode System aka GES per NEC definitions. The GES must be common for all electrical systems. Otherwise if you were to have a fault or more importantly lightning strike near by, (does not have to hit your house, anywhere near by) would create a potential difference of thousands of volts. That is a recipe to be killed or have a fire start.

I understand.

I thought someone was saying to avoid grounding. That by following the wiring diagram was some how irresponsible. I must have misunderstood.

[sdold]

Thanks. I assume you know I am KF5LJW right? You forgot Part Two and Part Three

I know, I figured they would see part two and three. I like those posts, they are easy to understand.

[Sunking]

Edit
From the link sdold provided, if I use multiple ground rods in my property, or add a grounding rod, I need to bond all the grounding rods together. But, if a grounding rod is already pretty close to where I have my small PV array, I would think it should be fine to use the house's grounding rod connection? If I install a "separate" ground rod too close to my house's grounding rods, I could run into noise issues, and other issues I probably haven't read about or have little knowledge about?

No you will not run into noise issues.

OK here is how you can tell what to do. One simple question must be answered to determine what to do.

Does your solar system i have any conductive items between point of use and your home structure or anything attached to your house?

This could be gas or water pipes, telephone/CATV, fence or anything in common with both locations. Understand?

If the answer is NO, then there is no requirement to bond it to you home AC Service Ground. You can if you want, but not required to.

If the answer is YES, then you know the answer right?

[Sunking]

From what I've found from some quick research is that, according to NEC section 690.41, it states that only PV systems greater than 50V are required to be solidly grounded. I have a 12v system. However, I feel there is a "but" somewhere in this article that I'm still trying to learn about.

Hold the bus here as you left out keywords and do not understand what it is telling you because you do not know the difference between Grounded System or Grounded. Here it is:

690.41 System Grounding


For a photovoltaic power source, one conductor of a 2-wire
system with a photovoltaic system voltage over 50 volts and
the reference (center tap) conductor of a bipolar system shall
be solidly grounded or shall use other methods that accomplish
equivalent system protection in accordance with
250.4(A) and that utilize equipment listed and identified for
the use.

Grounded System means one of the circuit conductors is grounded like the negative polarity or Neutral in a AC system. That has nothing to do with grounding the equipment which is always required.

There are two ways to provide Over Current Protection using Over Current Protection Device like fuses, breakers, and ground fault interrupter. For a Grounded System all that is required is a simple fuse or breaker at the source like batteries, panels, generators, and AC Service. What 690.41 is telling you is systems under 50 volts does not require the system to be grounded and can be floated.

However if you float the system, you still have to use OCPD's to protect the wiring, but is more expensive and complicated. It would require fuses on both polarities and a Ground Fault Detector to alert the operator one of the ungrounded system circuit conducts has a fault to ground. You still have to ground the equipment.

[rs14smith]

Maybe I'm being too harsh....it's hard to give you a definite answer to your questions because I do not have every fact about your situation. You have to take the information given and apply to your exact electrical setup.

Use the information given or hire an electrician.

I typically don't give up that easy within a forum if I'm still not sure about a few things. If you don't have enough information about my system, tell me what else I need to provide to help you help me. If no one here at this forum can help with my misunderstandings, then that's when I move to plan C and hire someone.

[Sunking]

Sunking may know a little about grounding, but the best description of the hows and more importantly the whys of grounding I've ever read is here. This guy knows grounding.

Thanks. I assume you know I am KF5LJW right? You forgot Part Two and Part Three

[DanS26]

Eventually we youngsters will get it, but I'm just trying to confirm some of my findings to check if any of it is valid or not. It's a lot to take in if this is something new you are getting into, and just because I have a ton of information thrown my way, I still need to make sure I comprehend the information.

So what exactly am I misunderstanding or not connecting the dots?

Maybe I'm being too harsh....it's hard to give you a definite answer to your questions because I do not have every fact about your situation. You have to take the information given and apply to your exact electrical setup.

Use the information given or hire an electrician.

[rs14smith]

All that information and yet you still do not understand........no wonder the old timers on this site are frustrated.

Eventually we youngsters will get it, but I'm just trying to confirm some of my findings to check if any of it is valid or not. It's a lot to take in if this is something new you are getting into, and just because I have a ton of information thrown my way, I still need to make sure I comprehend the information.

So what exactly am I misunderstanding or not connecting the dots?

[DanS26]

Just to clear up some confusion about my system's setup, my system is "not" connected to my house, but, the 400Watt PV array is located very close to my house (on my houses deck to be exact). My 30A charge controller, 12v battery, and 500W inverter is located in a garage.

My PV array consists of 4x 12v 100Watt solar panel hooked up in parallel producing about 23Amps with direct sunlight.

From what I've found from some quick research is that, according to NEC section 690.41, it states that only PV systems greater than 50V are required to be solidly grounded. I have a 12v system. However, I feel there is a "but" somewhere in this article that I'm still trying to learn about. I still need to ground my solar panels in case lighten hits them, but I'm trying to determine if I can just ground them straight to the ground rod my house is using?



From the link sdold provided, having multiple grounding rods in your properly close by that aren't "bonded/connected" together could create issues? If that's correct, that would mean I definitely need to use my house's ground rod as my PV's connection to ground?

All that information and yet you still do not understand........no wonder the old timers on this site are frustrated.

[rs14smith]

Just to clear up some confusion about my system's setup, my system is "not" connected to my house, but, the 400Watt PV array is located very close to my house (on my houses deck to be exact). My 30A charge controller, 12v battery, and 500W inverter is located in a garage.

My PV array consists of 4x 12v 100Watt solar panel hooked up in parallel producing about 23Amps with direct sunlight.

From what I've found from some quick research is that, according to NEC section 690.41, it states that only PV systems greater than 50V are required to be solidly grounded. I have a 12v system. However, I feel there is a "but" somewhere in this article that I'm still trying to learn about. I still need to ground my solar panels in case lighten hits them, but I'm trying to determine if I can just ground them straight to the ground rod my house is using?

Sunking may know a little about grounding, but the best description of the hows and more importantly the whys of grounding I've ever read is here. This guy knows grounding.

Edit
From the link sdold provided, if I use multiple ground rods in my property, or add a grounding rod, I need to bond all the grounding rods together. But, if a grounding rod is already pretty close to where I have my small PV array, I would think it should be fine to use the house's grounding rod connection? If I install a "separate" ground rod too close to my house's grounding rods, I could run into noise issues, and other issues I probably haven't read about or have little knowledge about?

[sdold]

Sunking may know a little about grounding, but the best description of the hows and more importantly the whys of grounding I've ever read is here. This guy knows grounding.