PV Installers: Standard Practice?

[lkstaack]

My PV ground mount is almost complete. All panels are in place and the wire pulled. However, there are a few things I don't like about the installation so far; am I being too picky?

Zip Ties: They use zip ties as cable clips. They say they are "UV resistant". I notice that the Ironridge website sells them as well. Is this acceptable? It may take a few years, but won't I eventually face a lot of sagging cables?
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Unfinished Frame Ends. The IronRidge frame sits on aluminium pipe. Shouldn't this be capped off to prevent critters and junk from filling it?
Pipe End.jpg

Crooked Inverter. This inverter was straight yesterday before the conduit was attached. I know the orientation doesn't affect anything, but shouldn't it be straight?
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[J.P.M.]

I'd start by walking the job and doing a punch list. Then, walk the job again with the vendor and give him a copy. The flicks wouldn't leave me with a good feeling for what I probably can't see/don't know about.

This looks/reminds me of what/how HxGuy's trail of tears/cluster function began.

[lkstaack]

I really don't like that cable management is handled by zip ties. However, I checked many sites online and found that nylon cable ties are quite common. Also, while proprietary wire management clips are common with racks, I haven't found any metal clips designed for use on round poles. What options are there besides nylon ties?

[gvl]

Zip ties bother me too. I've seen tons of pictures on the net with them so seems like common practice, I'm sure most people don't care and installers don't mind saving a couple of bucks. At least once they crack it looks like it will be a simple DIY fix in your case.

[emartin00]

Nylon cable ties have been the standard for years, but things are finally starting to change. A lot of the big installers are realizing that they have to go replace them all every couple of years. I guarantee they will start breaking within a couple of years.
Request that they change them to stainless steel ties, or high quality stainless steel clips, like those from Wiley. Stainless steel will last the life of your system, nylon will not.

[peakbagger]

I bought the Iron Ridge cable clips for my last array and wasn't that impressed with them, They were fine for main runs but when daisy chaining between panels, the wires didn't sit that well in them. With respect to UV resistant clips, if they are name brand and out of direct sunlight (like under an array) I have had good luck with them and they seemed to hold up in industry. On the other hand just because they are black and the packaging says or implies UV resistant I have seen no name brands fail. SS Straps are nice but they are costly and have to be installed correctly to keep them from chafing the cables. Unless you specified them in your contract (highly unlikely) then UV resistant tywraps are code legal. The code is a minimum standard. There is possibility that the contractor may change them out for goodwill but that's his decision and not a contractural issue.

The lack of end caps on racking is another issue that is not contractual unless you specified them. They don't cost a lot.

The alignment of the inverter is a workmanship issue and would be hard to make it a contractual issue

So what it comes down to is work up a punch list with the contractor and come to an agreement.

[lkstaack]

Request that they change them to stainless steel ties, or high quality stainless steel clips, like those from Wiley. Stainless steel will last the life of your system, nylon will not.

I would consider doing this, but I can't find anything else on the internet to replace it. Can you direct me to a site that has stainless steel ties designed for round pipes?

The code is a minimum standard.

Yes, during my internet research I learned that nylon zip ties are just fine according to code.

The alignment of the inverter is a workmanship issue and would be hard to make it a contractual issue.

That may be the case, but I find it hard to believe that any contractor with a sense of pride would allow such a visible reminder of their work.

[peakbagger]

I don't disagree with you but Solar has become a commodity and the contractors are competing on price. In order to stay in business they do the minimum required that hopefully is legal (or at least acceptable in that area) and go on to the next job. If the contractor is subbed by a larger firm like Solar City, The larger firm has a pretty good hammer to "fix it or else" to the sub but on a one off job all you do is talk to the principal of the contractor and point out that its looks poor. Since the other items are nice to do's I would suggest paying for the materials and having him install it gratis. That's real easy fill in work at the end of the day if the crew is in the area.

[Mdm99]

SS clips

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[lkstaack]

Yes, there are a lot of those type of clips available. I'm looking for clips designed for round pipe.

[emartin00]

Stainless cable ties aren't too hard to find. Basically anyone who makes the plastic ones, also has stainless. Even harbor freight has them: http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-s...-pk-69413.html

I would still prefer clips, but it looks like the ran the wires awkwardly.

[lkstaack]

Stainless cable ties aren't too hard to find. Basically anyone who makes the plastic ones, also has stainless. Even harbor freight has them: http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-s...-pk-69413.html

I would still prefer clips, but it looks like the ran the wires awkwardly.

Yes, it looks like those ties will last a lot longer. The Site Foreman cautioned against them though because he feels that the edges would be too sharp and possibly cut through the cable after a few years. He said that they routinely use UV resistant zip ties and will bring my concerns to the attention of the company owner.

The Foreman also indicated that they were planning on aligning the inverter and capping the pipe ends (with PVC...hmmm).

After all this, I still don't know what the appropriate long-term solution of running the DC cable along round pipe is. Should they have run it through conduit and screw the conduit to the pipe? Run it through the pipe? Mount a shelf for the cable?

[JFinch57]

I used cable ties on my NJ roof system and MD ground system, but used MADE IN USA heavy duty cable ties! They cost about 2-4X their imported version but hold up a lot better. Bought the Enphase cable clips for my new 10KW roof expansion that I'm starting this weekend. It's near impossible to do a system completely without them.

End caps are a must if you want to stop birds from nesting in there, and yes they do in 2" pipe! Last year I managed to get 7 out of 8 end caps on but the last one had babies in there. Just installed that cap this past weekend. Used 2" PVC threaded caps for the ends that were threaded and Fernco rubber caps with a hose clamp for those that were cut.

I would tell the installer that you're getting a stiff neck looking at the crooked inverter and see if he gets the hint. If he doesn't get it I'd say something about it might hold up the final payment, then he'll get it.

[foo1bar]

After all this, I still don't know what the appropriate long-term solution of running the DC cable along round pipe is. Should they have run it through conduit and screw the conduit to the pipe? Run it through the pipe? Mount a shelf for the cable?

Personally, I think zip ties for the ones running along the pipe is fine.

The clips I know of clip to the panel edges or the rails. I would think the cables could be moved a few inches so that they ran across the bottom of the panels instead of alongside the pipe. And you could get the 90-degree clips so the wires were clipped to the rails, but going at right-angle to the rail it's clipped to.
But then you have the wire unsupported for ~3' between each panel edge instead of zip tied to the pipe ever 2'.
I think I'd rather have it zip tied to the pipe.

[sdold]

On State of CA radio towers, we use a lot of big blue plastic ties that are claimed to resist UV. The last many years, I've seen many that have been up for at least 15-20 years. We used to use Band-it steel ties, but they dug into the cable jacket and other problems related to corrosion and RF.