Cost adder for Concrete "S" style roof

[12CV2]

I'm in the Bay Area (Tri-valley) and in the process of getting quotes for a smaller 3.6 to 3.9kW system...cash purchase. House is less than <4 yrs old house and the panels would all go on one SW roof face. Avoiding the big companies like Solar City, Sungevity, etc. and mainly contacting local installers. So far they are all coming back much higher than the numbers everyone post here. It's quite ridiculous what some of these companies are trying to charge on the first pass.

I was hoping to get the price into the $3.6 - $3.9 range for LG 300 panels and SolarEdge inverter but everything I am getting back is >$4.5.

I keep hearing that my concrete "S" style roof tiles are one of the most expensive type of roof to do an installation on. Concrete flat is supposed to be less and comp shingle is the cheapest. Does anyone have an idea how much of a premium they should be charging due to my roof type?? The sales guys keep dangling this over me saying how it takes longer for S type tiles but I have figure 50% of new houses in this area have the same exact style, the other 50% being flat concrete tile.

Is demand really that good in the bay area right now that these guys are holding prices high? Do they tend to hold the prices higher if they know you are doing a cash purchase? I understand a smaller system is still going to have the same fixed cost like permit (~$400) and install crew but the math still doesn't add up. Do I just need to give the installers my price target instead of all the back and forth and see who bites.

[J.P.M.]

I can't speak to your area. I can offer some anecdotal comparison. There are, at this time about 60+ installs in my HOA. There are no composition shingles. All homes are either flat or "S" tile concrete or clay mission tile. As best as I can figure, the solar pricing in this HOA seems mostly comparable to what most of the rest of San Diego county is paying - some folks get about $3.50 - $3.75/Watt for decent, non Sunpower stuff with sharp negotiating and several quotes. That seems about in line with the rest of the county. Many folks in my HOA still choose to lease or use PPA's, and/or buy Sunpower and get screwed. I see it 2 or 3 times/month lately.

I don't doubt that tile roofs are more labor intensive and therefore somewhat more expensive, but saying that tile jobs cost a lot more is something I've not heard from vendors, either through the residents or in many conversations with vendors. So, it looks possible to me that if there is a cost difference to vendors, until now, it might have been paid for, at least in part, by the sheeple who can't/won't/don't negotiate and those who lease.

Perhaps as prices stabilize, or as vendors drop by the wayside, or the low hanging fruit of the early adoptors is picked, the tile cost issue will become a red herring to raise/maintain prices more than in the past. It's just business.

People seldom get what they deserve. They more often get what they negotiate.

[newsol]

I'm in the Bay Area (Tri-valley) and in the process of getting quotes for a smaller 3.6 to 3.9kW system...cash purchase. House is less than <4 yrs old house and the panels would all go on one SW roof face. Avoiding the big companies like Solar City, Sungevity, etc. and mainly contacting local installers. So far they are all coming back much higher than the numbers everyone post here. It's quite ridiculous what some of these companies are trying to charge on the first pass.

I was hoping to get the price into the $3.6 - $3.9 range for LG 300 panels and SolarEdge inverter but everything I am getting back is >$4.5.

I keep hearing that my concrete "S" style roof tiles are one of the most expensive type of roof to do an installation on. Concrete flat is supposed to be less and comp shingle is the cheapest. Does anyone have an idea how much of a premium they should be charging due to my roof type?? The sales guys keep dangling this over me saying how it takes longer for S type tiles but I have figure 50% of new houses in this area have the same exact style, the other 50% being flat concrete tile.

Is demand really that good in the bay area right now that these guys are holding prices high? Do they tend to hold the prices higher if they know you are doing a cash purchase? I understand a smaller system is still going to have the same fixed cost like permit (~$400) and install crew but the math still doesn't add up. Do I just need to give the installers my price target instead of all the back and forth and see who bites.

I'm getting $4/watt here in the bay area for 4.5k system with 16 lg300 with solaredge inverter. the first few quotes i got from everyone was over $4 -$4.5 range. but for smaller systems like yours it might be a little more per watt.

[thejq]

I keep hearing that my concrete "S" style roof tiles are one of the most expensive type of roof to do an installation on. Concrete flat is supposed to be less and comp shingle is the cheapest. Does anyone have an idea how much of a premium they should be charging due to my roof type?? The sales guys keep dangling this over me saying how it takes longer for S type tiles but I have figure 50% of new houses in this area have the same exact style, the other 50% being flat concrete tile.

Is demand really that good in the bay area right now that these guys are holding prices high? Do they tend to hold the prices higher if they know you are doing a cash purchase? I understand a smaller system is still going to have the same fixed cost like permit (~$400) and install crew but the math still doesn't add up. Do I just need to give the installers my price target instead of all the back and forth and see who bites.

I think you should ask them how and why it's more expensive. This way you find out how they are planning to install your system. I believe if done properly the difference between S and flat concrete tile is minimal. But if they want to cut corners, flat tile is probably easier (eg. drill right through the tile to the rafter without removing the tiles etc.).

It's possible with all the tech millionaires and higher standards of living, people have to pay more in the Bay area.

[J.P.M.]

I think you should ask them how and why it's more expensive. This way you find out how they are planning to install your system. I believe if done properly the difference between S and flat concrete tile is minimal. But if they want to cut corners, flat tile is probably easier (eg. drill right through the tile to the rafter without removing the tiles etc.).

It's possible with all the tech millionaires and higher standards of living, people have to pay more in the Bay area.

Note that there is a difference between "S" type concrete tile and the traditional Bright orange clay mission tile. There are hook type bracketed standoffs that work for both. From observing what happens and talking to roofers and installers, the traditional mission tiles break more easily, and more care is required. It probably does take more time and care, but it isn't like no one ever saw a mission tile before. Anyway, a 5 kW system still takes about 6 person-days pretty much regardless of roof material.

[12CV2]

I definitely have concrete S tiles, not clay. Don't think any new track home around here is going to have clay tiles. The concrete tiles seem pretty strong to me.

Many installers are offering both Quickmount PV hook that does not require cutting a hole in the tile or the Qbase that does. Seems to me the hook could be prone to flexing in high winds and bang against the tile. Downside of the Qbase is a hole in the tile and EPDM collar doesn't seem like it's going to last 25+ years on a roof without letting water through.

[J.P.M.]

I definitely have concrete S tiles, not clay. Don't think any new track home around here is going to have clay tiles. The concrete tiles seem pretty strong to me.

Many installers are offering both Quickmount PV hook that does not require cutting a hole in the tile or the Qbase that does. Seems to me the hook could be prone to flexing in high winds and bang against the tile. Downside of the Qbase is a hole in the tile and EPDM collar doesn't seem like it's going to last 25+ years on a roof without letting water through.

Nice catch on the flexing/vibration. The cantilevered portion on the Q hook might indeed deflect and cause damage, probably sooner in windy environments. I'd also agree that the material used for the collar on the Q base probably won't last. I wonder if the mfg. has anything to say.

[scrippsbruin96]

I'm in the Bay Area (Tri-valley) and in the process of getting quotes for a smaller 3.6 to 3.9kW system...cash purchase. House is less than <4 yrs old house and the panels would all go on one SW roof face. Avoiding the big companies like Solar City, Sungevity, etc. and mainly contacting local installers. So far they are all coming back much higher than the numbers everyone post here. It's quite ridiculous what some of these companies are trying to charge on the first pass.

I was hoping to get the price into the $3.6 - $3.9 range for LG 300 panels and SolarEdge inverter but everything I am getting back is >$4.5.

I keep hearing that my concrete "S" style roof tiles are one of the most expensive type of roof to do an installation on. Concrete flat is supposed to be less and comp shingle is the cheapest. Does anyone have an idea how much of a premium they should be charging due to my roof type?? The sales guys keep dangling this over me saying how it takes longer for S type tiles but I have figure 50% of new houses in this area have the same exact style, the other 50% being flat concrete tile.

Is demand really that good in the bay area right now that these guys are holding prices high? Do they tend to hold the prices higher if they know you are doing a cash purchase? I understand a smaller system is still going to have the same fixed cost like permit (~$400) and install crew but the math still doesn't add up. Do I just need to give the installers my price target instead of all the back and forth and see who bites.

Would definitely negotiate those prices down.

We have a five year old home with S type concrete tiles. At no time did the installer mentioned need for higher prices at all. Took about a 6 person day to complete work, with a team of two that came in ahead of the install to install conduit to run through the attic. Cost for the polycrystalline 250 watt, 21 panel system pretax at $15.6k, just shy of $3/watt.

[SanDiego_installer]

As and installer, s-tile roofs are definitely more labor intensive than composition shingles. Also there are different approaches: a) tile trac or s-hooks that do not include flashings should never be used; b) flashable post attachments; c) flashable post attachments with new roofing paper below the entire array. Keep in mind, you do not want to have to pay your installer to come back in 5 or 10 years to remove and reinstall your system because your rolled the dice on installing solar over an old roof (yours is only 4 years old, so not an issue).

Economies of scale are more of a factor on the overall cost per Watt. For instance a 7 kW system on an s-tile roof can be done for under $3.50/Watt. Whereas a 3.5 kW system on the same roof will be up to $4.60/Watt.

If you have the roof space LG 280's will save you $0.20/Watt compared to LG 300's. At the end of the day, it's how many kWh's your system generates, not the number of solar panels on the roof.

[rmk9785e]

As an installer, s-tile roofs are definitely more labor intensive than composition shingles. Also there are different approaches: a) tile trac or s-hooks that do not include flashings should never be used; b) flashable post attachments; c) flashable post attachments with new roofing paper below the entire array. Keep in mind, you do not want to have to pay your installer to come back in 5 or 10 years to remove and reinstall your system because your rolled the dice on installing solar over an old roof (yours is only 4 years old, so not an issue).

On a 15 year old roof in the Bay Area with concrete S-Curve tiles, what mounting system would you recommend that doesn't require drilling holes through the tiles? One of the installers is proposing Ironridge XR-10 and TileTrac for this project.

[ButchDeal]

On a 15 year old roof in the Bay Area with concrete S-Curve tiles, what mounting system would you recommend that doesn't require drilling holes through the tiles? One of the installers is proposing Ironridge XR-10 and TileTrac for this project.

We use Ironridge XR-100 with one of these:

http://www.quickmountpv.com/download...HookSM-web.pdf
https://www.quickscrews.com/sites/de..._spec_page.pdf

The XR-100 is stiffer and has longer spans than the XR-10

[rmk9785e]

Thank you!