Anyone using a Smappee?

[bcroe]

I think they've concentrated so much on getting it all to work, technically, they've forgotten to
help hold the hand of the uneducated, like me, to make more targeted tips on how to reduce
my energy. I've sent them a long list of ideas.

Are you going to tell us more abut your list of ideas, including actual numbers?
It sounds like your energy reduction plan is primarily using "control plugs" to cut
off vampire loads when the equipment isn't needed? Bruce Roe

[pamalot]

Dan

That's some useful info, thanks for posting. Looks like you're about 6 months ahead of me. So far Smappee has detected about 30 appliances now. I've started using their control plugs quite a lot. I bought 6 and have them installed all over the house now, I didn't find any problem with the range, but maybe it's because they are all located in the house, I haven't tried one in the garage. I copied the logic of a guy on Youtube that's done a video blog and have them all waking up in the morning when they detect the coffee machine coming on, so far this logic works 100%, but I also set them to trigger to a set time based schedule too, just in case hell should freeze over and I don't have a coffee first thing in the monring

I've used the 'merge' feature quite a few times too, that certainly helps to tidy things up.

I agree that they should have better tips and insights to help consumers reduce their energy consumption. I think they've concentrated so much on getting it all to work, technically, they've forgotten to help hold the hand of the uneducated, like me, to make more targeted tips on how to reduce my energy. I've sent them a long list of ideas. I got a nice email back from them which must have taken some time for them to right back as it was quite comprehensive, which was certainly nice to receive. Looks like there's a load of nice features they're working on which I will look forward to seeing in time.

I liked their 'Itemized Bill' feature which was in their last App update. That's pretty cool..

[pamalot]

Here's a load profile for a 42inch residential refer. Do you think Sappee could track this as a "major appliance"?

Wow. A "42 inch refer"! Don't go driving you car after you've smoked all that now will you

[DanTripp]

Here's a load profile for a 42inch residential refer. Do you think Sappee could track this as a "major appliance"?

I think the Smappee would recognize your refrigerator’s on and off patterns fairly reliably. For example, the on event where the power goes from 0 to about 75 watts then decreases to around 64 watts over several minutes. This is the sort of pattern their software seems designed for, and seems to be the heart of their proprietary recognition algorithm. Likewise, the off event where power goes from around 62 to near 0. A thing that probably makes it easier to identify a refrigerator is that the pattern takes place throughout the day, including overnight when there are few other devices to complicate the overall power draw picture. Our fridge and garage freezer were the first appliances the Smappee detected.

The extra stuff happening between 6 and 8 am on your graph would register as one or more separate devices. In my own case, the Smappee has identified separate devices for the refrigerator light, the freezer light, and a couple of other things, which I suspect are the defroster and maybe the ice maker. I’ve looked through the fridge manual and wiring diagram to try to identify power comsumers and how many watts they use, but I’m still kind of guessing. Smappee has also identified three separate devices for my fridge. I suspect this was because of variations in the on/off power patterns. I probably should merge these devices.

I would guess Smappee would recognize maybe 80% of your fridge’s on/off events, if you don’t have a lot else going on in your house, like the TV especially. In some cases it would recognize the on event but not the matching off event, or vise-versa. When this happens I’m not sure how it effects the cumulative usage data, but you’d think the Smappee would underestimate appliance power consumption.

[DanTripp]

The 400 watts is used by the gas oven, not the cooktop. I had assumed the oven used a spark igniter, like the cooktop and our gas grill. But I’ve since learned that it has a glow bar, which is on whenever the oven is heating.

The Smappee hasn’t helped me identify areas to save energy yet. (This is another area where the company’s marketing overpromises.) I’ve found that we’re already doing a pretty good job of conserving energy. If anything, the Smappee has kept me from saving a small amount of energy. It made me realize that certain lights are not used enough to justify upgrading to LED bulbs at today’s prices. For example, it tells me that the set of four 90w floodlights on our front porch are on for only about 1.5 hours per week, costing only about $2.80 per year. Not worth paying $20 per bulb to replace. Other bulbs that are used the most have already been replaced.

[control4userguy]

Here's a load profile for a 42inch residential refer. Do you think Sappee could track this as a "major appliance"?

[bcroe]

Hi folks,
So the bottom line is that I’ve enjoyed having the Smappee. It provides useful information, despite its shortcomings. Smappee gives me useful energy information that I didn’t have before.

I learned that my gas range consumes 400 watts of electricity in addition to the gas.

I can see real time power usage, and time graphs, both of which seem very accurate. I can see power cost estimates for each device, over a day, week, month or year. The estimates may not be totally accurate, but as ballpark figures they are useful. I think the company oversells the Smappee’s ability to reliably detect individual devices. In my case, Smappee is correct maybe 60 to 80 percent of the time, much less when the TV is on. More for high power devices. Maybe this will be good enough for you, maybe not.

400 watts for a gas stove seems like an awfully lot. If its just momentary to light a flame,
OK. Is a plan forming to reduce energy use? Bruce Roe

[DanTripp]

Hi folks,

I’m brand new here, having just found this forum while researching solar power. I have been using a Smappee since last November and thought I’d share my experience. When I bought my Smappee, I ordered directly from the manufacturer in Belgium, which was a bit of a hassle and extra expense. I’m glad to see it’s now available on Amazon.

Overall the device is pretty cool. It was easy to install myself and easy to get running. Being a tech and gadget guy, I found it interesting to watch as Smappee discovered energy consuming devices (“appliances”) over the first several weeks. Much of the time I was able to identify each device and give it the appropriate name and device type. In some cases I used the option to teach Smappee about a particular device, by switching it on and off twice. After five months Smappee has identified almost 100 devices in my home. Smappee has a published API and I’ve been using that to download all my data, which I’ve stored in a local database. I’ve also written some of my own code to analyze my energy usage.

First, what works well with Smappee? It does a good job of recognizing devices that have a unique power signature. For example, high power appliances like a clothes dryer, coffee pot or oven are detected very reliably. Appliances that have multiple cycles with different power usage, such as a dishwasher or clothes washer, will be recognized as multiple devices. The Smappee software has an option to merge multiple devices, but I haven’t used that because I prefer to get have the discrete data and analyze it myself. Also, a two-phase 240v device like a clothes dryer will appear as two devices. Smappee (in the U.S.) has two CTs that clamp over the two phases of the power main. Since it measures current on each phase separately, it uses this to help identify devices. So it can distinguish similar devices if they are on different phases. If one device (e.g. a vacuum) is used in different places around the house, it will probably appear as two devices – one for each phase. Again, merging the devices should fix this.

What doesn’t work well? Smappee has a hard time distinguishing devices with similar power usage. For example, I have a light fixture in the master bathroom with four 100 watt bulbs. The garage also has four 100 watt bulbs. Smappee couldn’t tell them apart. I actually changed one of the bulbs in the garage to 60 watts, and now Smappee can tell them apart. Lights that dim confuse the Smappee. This is annoying to me because I have a lot of lights on dimmers. Low wattage devices are generally either ignored or confused. This is a problem for LED bulbs. To me, by far the biggest problem with Smappee is that it is totally confused by devices whose power usage fluctuates constantly. This means when my plasma TV is turned on, the Smappee gives several false readings per minute. Each time the brightness on the TV changes, Smappee thinks some light elsewhere in the house has turned on or off. I’ve reported this to Smappee support and their response is that their research group is aware of the problem and working on possible solutions. We'll see.

I tried the Comfort Plug but am not currently using it. I had some trouble setting it up and initially thought it was defective. Turns out I did something wrong configuring it. User error, although I would contend the instructions were misleading. A problem for me is that the Comfort Plug must be within a certain distance of the base unit, which is in the garage, a long way from the other end of the house. The IFTTT integration is nice, but I would say the detection of devices is, in general, not reliable enough to use as a trigger. I’m not sure how the “general activity” trigger works – presumably Smappee can distinguish between user-initiated events like turning on/off lights, and background ones like refrigerators cycling on and off. Some of the choices they made in their trigger/events software strike me as a bit questionable. In general, their software has some rough edges.

So the bottom line is that I’ve enjoyed having the Smappee. It provides useful information, despite its shortcomings. Smappee gives me useful energy information that I didn’t have before. For example, I now know how often and for how long the garage freezer powers on, and how many watts it uses. I know how much power the fan in the furnace uses, both when running in circulate mode and when blowing heated air. I learned that my gas range consumes 400 watts of electricity in addition to the gas. I know the clothes dryer uses 6000 watts, which is by far the biggest power user in the house. I can see real time power usage, and time graphs, both of which seem very accurate. I can see power cost estimates for each device, over a day, week, month or year. The estimates may not be totally accurate, but as ballpark figures they are useful. I think the company oversells the Smappee’s ability to reliably detect individual devices. In my case, Smappee is correct maybe 60 to 80 percent of the time, much less when the TV is on. More for high power devices. Maybe this will be good enough for you, maybe not.

[SunEagle]

I've decided this thing is a keeper. I've ordered myself up another 6 Control Plugs. I'm loving the functionality of it. It's not perfect but it's certainly close enough for me. I love the user interface and the realtime view I've now got of not only the solar but also what's happening in my home - I can spy on my home anytime I like

If anyone is following in my footsteps I'd say the following:

Don't expect it to detect most of your appliances at once, it was a gradual thing for my home. It seemed to detect more as time went on. It's now monitoring about 12 appliances, including all the major ones. Also, the manual training didn't work very well for me, it seemed it was happier learning the home on it's own - which suited me anyway as I didn't have the time to hold it's hand along the way.

Don't expect it to detect the small (sub 20watt) loads. I think the smallest appliance my Smappee detects is 24 watts, but it will often not see it when the house is really busy - I can't remember what it is now, sorry.

For appliances with multiple loads I would advise to merge the applianecs into one item. For instance my washing machine was detected as a number of different appliances depending on whether the heating element was on or the motor or the pump, etc so I simply merged them into one thing - Washing Machine. If you don't do this it can get messy with those types of appliances.

It seems there a small difference between the App on iPad and the android version on my phone. I can see the Itemized Bill in my iPad but not in my Android phone. Their support told me that the Android App version lags behind the Apple version release by a few weeks. Good to know.

Apart from that I think that's it. I'd give it a 8/10. I think we'll see more and more energy monitors with this functionality in the future, it seems to work.

Thanks for the update. It looks like this device may be something I have been discussing in another thread. I guess the proof is in the pudding if the data can be collected for at least 12 months and the cost to monitor is within a homeowners budget. Especially if it points out where the "big" loads are and how they can be adjusted or "shed" to save money.

[pamalot]

I've decided this thing is a keeper. I've ordered myself up another 6 Control Plugs. I'm loving the functionality of it. It's not perfect but it's certainly close enough for me. I love the user interface and the realtime view I've now got of not only the solar but also what's happening in my home - I can spy on my home anytime I like

If anyone is following in my footsteps I'd say the following:

Don't expect it to detect most of your appliances at once, it was a gradual thing for my home. It seemed to detect more as time went on. It's now monitoring about 12 appliances, including all the major ones. Also, the manual training didn't work very well for me, it seemed it was happier learning the home on it's own - which suited me anyway as I didn't have the time to hold it's hand along the way.

Don't expect it to detect the small (sub 20watt) loads. I think the smallest appliance my Smappee detects is 24 watts, but it will often not see it when the house is really busy - I can't remember what it is now, sorry.

For appliances with multiple loads I would advise to merge the applianecs into one item. For instance my washing machine was detected as a number of different appliances depending on whether the heating element was on or the motor or the pump, etc so I simply merged them into one thing - Washing Machine. If you don't do this it can get messy with those types of appliances.

It seems there a small difference between the App on iPad and the android version on my phone. I can see the Itemized Bill in my iPad but not in my Android phone. Their support told me that the Android App version lags behind the Apple version release by a few weeks. Good to know.

Apart from that I think that's it. I'd give it a 8/10. I think we'll see more and more energy monitors with this functionality in the future, it seems to work.

[bcroe]

Wow. You have some big loads which will be hard to
shut down unless you replace them.

I replaced my ancient fridge & freezer with a combination unit, the most energy efficient
on the market at the time at 1 KWH a day. My phantom loads started at 300 watts, that
is things doing nothing. A single wasted watt is 9 KWH a year. I didn't consider the fridge
to be in that category, its really working. Eventually got phantoms to about 50W.

it was literally a hundred small things; tracked them down and replaced or redesigned
most of them to 0.1W. Like, the doorbell and furnace transformer were each burning
some 3 watts doing nothing. Putting a very efficient tape wound toroid transformer in
the furnace fixed it, and also supplied the doorbell for free.

A typical wall wart runs warm to the touch, even unloaded, and the DC output voltage
varies widely. 3 were replaced here by one toroid for an answering machine, radio phone,
& a weather radio monitor. Besides the trans, load power is reduced. Because voltage
regulation is good, the trans cam be wound for just enough voltage, and tests may show
the device needs a lot less than specified. A center tapped secondary allows just a single
rectifier voltage drop instead of 2 for the usual diode bridge, and using a considerably
oversized Shottky diode minimizes even that.

If the power is really wasted, there is usually a way to improve. What really surprises
me is how much effort I read about, on monitoring every watt every hour or minute of
each day, with little effort to design a more efficient system. Bruce Roe

[HX_Guy]

Well the 27" iMac isn't too bad, much better than I expected. 45W per hour over night.

[SunEagle]

The main fridge is one of those built-in ones and I just checked the label...8.0A. The smaller drawer fridge that we use for drinks is only 1.3A.
The chest freezer I actually have it plugged into a Kill-A-Watt and over the past 437 hours, it's consumed 19.34kW (or 1,062w/day).

The two computers Im sure are using quite a bit too, one is a 27" iMac and the other a Mac Pro w/ 30" monitor. While I have the displays set to "sleep", the computers are not set to that because it breaks the network connection and I need that always on. I'll probably plug each into the Kill-A-Watt and see exactly how bad they are.

Wow. You have some big loads which will be hard to shut down unless you replace them.

[HX_Guy]

Those refrigerators are not very efficient. I have a 23 cf fridge, 2 small dorm style fridges, along with 5 TV/cable box systems, CCTV security, small UPS, a couple of laptops, AA battery charger, wall charge hand vacuum, a few clocks and probably a half dozen other vampire loads which come out to only about 300 watt all day. That calculates (at my base $0.13/kWh rate) about $1 per day.

I would be hard pressed to generate a constant 700 watts all day long from similar loads.

The main fridge is one of those built-in ones and I just checked the label...8.0A. The smaller drawer fridge that we use for drinks is only 1.3A.
The chest freezer I actually have it plugged into a Kill-A-Watt and over the past 437 hours, it's consumed 19.34kW (or 1,062w/day).

The two computers Im sure are using quite a bit too, one is a 27" iMac and the other a Mac Pro w/ 30" monitor. While I have the displays set to "sleep", the computers are not set to that because it breaks the network connection and I need that always on. I'll probably plug each into the Kill-A-Watt and see exactly how bad they are.

[SunEagle]

With that much refrigeration, and the other stuff, that 0.7 kW/hr. may not be far off the mark. Feel like putting a Kill-a-Watt meter on them ?

Those refrigerators are not very efficient. I have a 23 cf fridge, 2 small dorm style fridges, along with 5 TV/cable box systems, CCTV security, small UPS, a couple of laptops, AA battery charger, wall charge hand vacuum, a few clocks and probably a half dozen other vampire loads which come out to only about 300 watt all day. That calculates (at my base $0.13/kWh rate) about $1 per day.

I would be hard pressed to generate a constant 700 watts all day long from similar loads.