New System in San Diego need input

[gboss]

I am ready to make a decision but I am concerned about the difference in Cost per Watt.
Why would one be so much lower than the other-is this a RED FLAG or just a great deal?
Very good reviews for both companies I am considering after getting 5 bids.
I use about 19.4k kWh per year with a $550.00 a month electric bill


Here are the two systems:

12.320 kW DC

44 LG 280S1C-PV panels
Inverters 1 SMA America SB3800-US-22 & 1 SMA America SB7000 TL-US-22
Cost before rebate $43,243.00
Cost per Watt $3.51

Second System

13000 kW DC

a. (50) Kyocera Solar:KD260GX-LFB modules on an Asphalt Roof
b. (1) SMA America: SB6000TL & (1) SMA America: SB3800TL (240V)
Cost before rebate $53,614.00
Cost per Watt 4.13

What do you think?

Thanks appreciate your input

[sensij]

~$3.50 / W is not obscenely low in San Diego. A "great deal" would be closer to $3 / W. Some installers are trying to hang onto $4 / W or higher, but anyone who does some shopping should be able to do better without sacrificing installer quality. If you feel good about installer 1, nothing looks wrong with the price to me.

How well oriented is your roof for this? If south facing, 15-30 deg tilt, and little to no shade, you might find that both of those systems would end up slightly oversized for your usage, and going somewhat smaller could save some money upfront without costing much in the long run.

[J.P.M.]

All other things being equal, the LG price is not bad for this area, maybe $3.40/Watt is possible. Kyocera is usually a bit more than LG, but $4.13 seems a bit high. More like $3.80 - $4.00/Watt or so.

Before you buy anything, know that you'll get a much better bang for your buck by conservation efforts and an energy audit before solar.

At 19,400 kWh/yr. usage, I'd be way more concerned about reducing usage than about solar prices. That's a lot of electricity.

Anyway, the way things may be working out with rate restructuring, huge users like you are, believe it or not, are most likely in for a significant rate DECREASE this year.

Finally, after conservation efforts, consider that replacing 100% of your usage with solar not be the most cost effective thing to do.

Take what you want/need of the above. Scrap the rest.

[gboss]

~$3.50 / W is not obscenely low in San Diego. A "great deal" would be closer to $3 / W. Some installers are trying to hang onto $4 / W or higher, but anyone who does some shopping should be able to do better without sacrificing installer quality. If you feel good about installer 1, nothing looks wrong with the price to me.

How well oriented is your roof for this? If south facing, 15-30 deg tilt, and little to no shade, you might find that both of those systems would end up slightly oversized for your usage, and going somewhat smaller could save some money upfront without costing much in the long run.

Thank you for your input

[gboss]

All other things being equal, the LG price is not bad for this area, maybe $3.40/Watt is possible. Kyocera is usually a bit more than LG, but $4.13 seems a bit high. More like $3.80 - $4.00/Watt or so.

Before you buy anything, know that you'll get a much better bang for your buck by conservation efforts and an energy audit before solar.

At 19,400 kWh/yr. usage, I'd be way more concerned about reducing usage than about solar prices. That's a lot of electricity.

Anyway, the way things may be working out with rate restructuring, huge users like you are, believe it or not, are most likely in for a significant rate DECREASE this year.

Finally, after conservation efforts, consider that replacing 100% of your usage with solar not be the most cost effective thing to do.

Take what you want/need of the above. Scrap the rest.

Great idea-I am looking into that as well especially our outdated pool pump

[J.P.M.]

Great idea-I am looking into that as well especially our outdated pool pump

With all respect - a lot more than a good idea - more like a sure thing with lots of opportunities. Get an energy audit. You're a prime candidate for an energy conservation intervention way before solar.

[scrippsbruin96]

With all respect - a lot more than a good idea - more like a sure thing with lots of opportunities. Get an energy audit. You're a prime candidate for an energy conservation intervention way before solar.

Totally agree, definitely would start with the pool pump. 2 years ago we got some quotes on solar, with cost at essentially north of $5.5/watt, we stopped right there and did the following:

-replacement of single speed pool pump to variable speed pump. Cost of pump was about $800, with the $200 SDGE rebate, cost was $600. Cost of hiring someone for install was essentially twice the cost. So youtubed and spent half a day and installed it myself. ROI was about a year.

-installed solar attic fan at about $600 as well. Which brought max summer 2nd floor temp from 85 degree down to 80 degree. Significantly reduce AC time.

-just recently switched to all LED light bulbs, Costco has the best price point on that.

After doing the above and waiting a couple of years, price now down to essentially $3/watt, time for solar.

[J.P.M.]

Totally agree, definitely would start with the pool pump. 2 years ago we got some quotes on solar, with cost at essentially north of $5.5/watt, we stopped right there and did the following:

-replacement of single speed pool pump to variable speed pump. Cost of pump was about $800, with the $200 SDGE rebate, cost was $600. Cost of hiring someone for install was essentially twice the cost. So youtubed and spent half a day and installed it myself. ROI was about a year.

-installed solar attic fan at about $600 as well. Which brought max summer 2nd floor temp from 85 degree down to 80 degree. Significantly reduce AC time.

-just recently switched to all LED light bulbs, Costco has the best price point on that.

After doing the above and waiting a couple of years, price now down to essentially $3/watt, time for solar.

If the OP is still at 19,400 kWh/yr., Id suggest there's still got some wringing out to do in the conservation dept. None of my business/concern, but FYI, that usage is close to ~ 2X the ave. SDG & E residential customer.

When solar does happen, keep in mind rates, and thus bills are likely to drop this year as mentioned. Also, you have 2 tax years (2015 & 2016) to chew up any solar tax credits. Maybe it's tax planning time as well.

$3.00/Watt may be possible, but I'd suggest keeping in mind that paying too little for something may actually be worse in the long run than paying too much. Buy cheap, buy twice. If you are like the smart money, you want most bang for your buck, not low dollar.

A biggie: get your roof inspected/serviced before solar. You will not be sorry.

Take what you want/need of the above. Scrap the rest. No more than opinion anyway.

[gboss]

Totally agree, definitely would start with the pool pump. 2 years ago we got some quotes on solar, with cost at essentially north of $5.5/watt, we stopped right there and did the following:

-replacement of single speed pool pump to variable speed pump. Cost of pump was about $800, with the $200 SDGE rebate, cost was $600. Cost of hiring someone for install was essentially twice the cost. So youtubed and spent half a day and installed it myself. ROI was about a year.

-installed solar attic fan at about $600 as well. Which brought max summer 2nd floor temp from 85 degree down to 80 degree. Significantly reduce AC time.

-just recently switched to all LED light bulbs, Costco has the best price point on that.

After doing the above and waiting a couple of years, price now down to essentially $3/watt, time for solar.

thank you for your input. We are definitely going to have an energy audit. We already have Ceiling fans, Attic fan, some led bulbs. Looking to change pump and

finding anything else that will help.

[Gmoney!]

Def shoot for 3.30-3.50 range.

For pool pump, if you have a saltwater system some systems require mininum flow to chlorinate. I found this after i bought my pump. Also if you have a cleaner tied to system it will require certain flow to work. Last, make sure you calculate or figure out the head your oumo is working against because the greater it is, the higher rpm you will need to prime pump. If your pump is way above or way below the pool level, it could affect your savings.

I can ot run my pump at lowest settingit wont prime, need at least 1200 rpm to prime and 1700 to chlorinate, 2300 to get cleaner moving. Its still saving me money but not as much as i expected, probably take teo years to recoup cost instead of 1 yr i expected.

[gboss]

If the OP is still at 19,400 kWh/yr., Id suggest there's still got some wringing out to do in the conservation dept. None of my business/concern, but FYI, that usage is close to ~ 2X the ave. SDG & E residential customer.

When solar does happen, keep in mind rates, and thus bills are likely to drop this year as mentioned. Also, you have 2 tax years (2015 & 2016) to chew up any solar tax credits. Maybe it's tax planning time as well.

$3.00/Watt may be possible, but I'd suggest keeping in mind that paying too little for something may actually be worse in the long run than paying too much. Buy cheap, buy twice. If you are like the smart money, you want most bang for your buck, not low dollar.

A biggie: get your roof inspected/serviced before solar. You will not be sorry.

Take what you want/need of the above. Scrap the rest. No more than opinion anyway.

Thanks again JPM. I know we are an energy hog- a lot of water pushing devices which suck the power

[scrippsbruin96]

Def shoot for 3.30-3.50 range.

For pool pump, if you have a saltwater system some systems require mininum flow to chlorinate. I found this after i bought my pump. Also if you have a cleaner tied to system it will require certain flow to work. Last, make sure you calculate or figure out the head your oumo is working against because the greater it is, the higher rpm you will need to prime pump. If your pump is way above or way below the pool level, it could affect your savings.

I can ot run my pump at lowest settingit wont prime, need at least 1200 rpm to prime and 1700 to chlorinate, 2300 to get cleaner moving. Its still saving me money but not as much as i expected, probably take teo years to recoup cost instead of 1 yr i expected.

Agree, I run my variable speed at 2600 rpm for about an hour daily and keep it low the rest of the time. One pleasant side benefit when I went TOU is cost of running at higher speed went down significantly.

[ericf1]

As large a system as you are considering, I'm guessing you are using several sections of your roof? If you do have panels facing several directions, consider micro-inverters or DC optimizers, as they should perform a little better. I would also pick LG's newer 305 watt panels. You should be able to get your system installed with these components and still stay around $3.50/watt.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks again JPM. I know we are an energy hog- a lot of water pushing devices which suck the power

You're Welcome.

Water pushers aren't as bad as air pushers. Pumping costs for fluids are somewhat proportional to the specific volume (~ = (1/fluid density)) of the fluid being moved. For example, it costs more to move 1 lbm of air than 1 lbm of water.

HVAC equipment is usually the biggest user of energy in most U.S. residences. Often closely followed by DHW demands.

As much as possible, use cheaper sources of energy (CH4 for example) to heat water or provide space heat. Around here, solar water heaters are more cost effective than elec. resistance heat for water heating, but not usually as cost effective as CH4. T.O.U. water heating may be competitive with CH4, but probably only with a timer and super off peak pricing with the added inconvenience of some time shifting of hot water usage.

Heat pumps are sometimes useful for space heating and DHW service, but often only marginally cost effective with a lot more complexity and therefore more things to go wrong.

One ironic thing about heat pumps for space heating in cold climates: A VERY well insulated home will have a lower "balance temperature" - the outdoor temp. at which the building internal heat generation from lights, and activity will offset some of the building heat load. As the outside temp. drops, the efficiency of the heat pump decreases, changing the cost effectiveness and seasonal COP's some. High mass homes with a lot of passive solar sometimes are better off with spot elec. resistance heaters, or CH4 fired equip.

I know of high mass passive solar design home that uses a CH4 fired domestic water tank to heat the dwelling via radiant floor heat. Kind of funky and a little off the wall, but it seems to have worked for 8 or ten yrs. so far and isn't oversized.

To a point, paying more for newer, (hopefully) more efficient A/C equipment is probably worth it. Super efficient stuff has a lot of bells/whistles that wring a bit more out of a Kwh of energy but may be beyond the point of diminishing returns when it comes to the ultra efficient stuff. Besides, more to go wrong. A whole hose fan operating at night for example may save more money for less expense and a lot less complexity.

Take what you want/need of the above. Scrap the rest.

[gboss]

As large a system as you are considering, I'm guessing you are using several sections of your roof? If you do have panels facing several directions, consider micro-inverters or DC optimizers, as they should perform a little better. I would also pick LG's newer 305 watt panels. You should be able to get your system installed with these components and still stay around $3.50/watt.

Thanks for the input.

We are using 2 sections of the roof- 1 South facing section and 1 southwest facing section. May consider micro inverters but leaning towards central inverters