TOU for SCE in Southern California analysis

[insaneoctane]

Quick comment/question for those following the TOU stuff, particularly for SCE TOU-D-A with the "baseline credit" thingy....
While the math is all there to prove/disprove this, sometimes just looking at things offers a unique perspective....that is what just happened to me when looking at this month's bill that just showed up:

If you notice, since I had a NET negative (I produced more than consumed), -126 kWh to be exact, I *paid* $13.04 for what is kinda supposed to be a credit on my bill. Now, the epiphany I had looking at this was that I could have used 126kWh during "super-peak" for FREE (or almost). Because I'm paying $0.10347/kWh due to my net production- had I used an extra 126 kWh during Super peak when energy costs ~$0.109/kWh, the "baseline credit" would have offset the cost and it would have effectively been free. I'll take it further, I think that not only could I use more to get my net usage to zero for free, but I think I could use even more, up to by baseline amount, during Super-peak for essentially free due to the "baseline credit" more or less completely offseting the cost during super-peak.

Do you believe this?

Thoughts/comments welcome....

[sensij]

Do you believe this?

Thoughts/comments welcome....

Yes, this is correct, and it is supported by spreadsheet modelling. It is just another reason to *not* oversize an array, and instead aim for something less than 100% of consumption. The CPUC has mandated that the new TOU plans being considered for the default rate plan in 2019 include some kind of baseline credit, so expect to see more of this in the future.

[silversaver]

Quick comment/question for those following the TOU stuff, particularly for SCE TOU-D-A with the "baseline credit" thingy....
While the math is all there to prove/disprove this, sometimes just looking at things offers a unique perspective....that is what just happened to me when looking at this month's bill that just showed up:

If you notice, since I had a NET negative (I produced more than consumed), -126 kWh to be exact, I *paid* $13.04 for what is kinda supposed to be a credit on my bill. Now, the epiphany I had looking at this was that I could have used 126kWh during "super-peak" for FREE (or almost). Because I'm paying $0.10347/kWh due to my net production- had I used an extra 126 kWh during Super peak when energy costs ~$0.109/kWh, the "baseline credit" would have offset the cost and it would have effectively been free. I'll take it further, I think that not only could I use more to get my net usage to zero for free, but I think I could use even more, up to by baseline amount, during Super-peak for essentially free due to the "baseline credit" more or less completely offseting the cost during super-peak.

Do you believe this?

Thoughts/comments welcome....

Why not? That's the rule of game you had to follow. You need to utilizing the super off peak if you are on a budget size system and your solar system better facing between South to West. I have been maximizing super off peak for EVs charging and achieve great results. My solar facing SW245 and the annual output is less than South facing arrays, but it might be getting more credit than South facing arrays. Now, I can charge EV during off peak than wait for super off peak. My solar not just cover 100% usage, it also cover 2 EVs.

[insaneoctane]

Wow, Silversaver you have over $700 credit and are still net consumer. Impressive. Way to maximize that TOU! Makes me wonder if it will continue...

[silversaver]

Wow, Silversaver you have over $700 credit and are still net consumer. Impressive. Way to maximize that TOU! Makes me wonder if it will continue...

Trust me, I have really manage my usages in super off peak. I try not to use the ACs if it is not super hot. All of that for finding out the true benefit of TOU-D-A plan for solar owners (Southwest 245 deg facing arrays 7.1kW DC system). From now on, I'm just like Bob set my ACs in comfort zone and let them run!!!

Again, we don't know the future if TOU will be any different. This Summer is cooler than last Summer, lets see what happen later of year and see if those credits generated will be use up or not.

BTW, from July 14 to Aug 12th, my solar generated 1202kWh

[Alisobob]

From now on, I'm just like Bob set my ACs in comfort zone and let them run!!!

Good thinking....

I've been very comfortable... especially during the night.

I still have about 50% of my stored credit left... aprox $175.

I'll make it through the heat, and just about net out at zero credits.

[bcroe]

From now on, I'm just like Bob set my ACs in comfort zone and let them run!!!

BTW, from July 14 to Aug 12th, my solar generated 1202kWh

Its certainly nice to just do that, knowing you aren't consuming any fuel, and the electric bill
will still be zero KWH. The primary thing here is to generate the equivalent of about 1000
gallons of propane in a year. The actual need come winter will vary hugely, and not very
predictably. But oversized about 500% (electrical), I managed to buy no propane and get
to the annual true up date and donate 700 KWH to the power company (despite the clouds).
Which is way better than me buying 700 KWH from them.

Last year was cloudy; this year is worse. Summer production is down about 200 KWH a
month, but with the new heat pump reserves are actually higher than last year.

We just had the IREA local energy fair, and I hear talk about building systems here for
around $3 a watt. Nobody talks about clouds & snow. But it sounded like selling SRECs
even at rock bottom market prices, would by itself be enough to pay for the system over
its lifetime. If true, this could be an overriding consideration on array size. May try to
get into this. Bruce Roe

[silversaver]

TOU-D-A is tough to beat. From Aug 12th to 25th, my solar produced 546kWh and I still consumed 284kWh from SCE. Guess what happen to my bill??

[silversaver]

I have tried hard, but I guess I'm still getting credit after all..... ($30 = gain through $0.1 X baseline)

From Aug 12th to Sep 10th, my solar produced 1122kWh and I used 763kWh from SCE. That is total of 1885kWh consumed for the billing period, but guess what, I'm still getting credit from SCE.


Aug 15 $$$.jpg

Aug 15 kWh.jpg

[propman07]

If it helps to have a non-google drive option, I moved it into my dropbox, and it can be accessed by request.

Hi-

New to the forum and interested in taking a peek at the spreadsheet that you developed for TOU calculations. Thanks.

David

[sensij]

Hi-

New to the forum and interested in taking a peek at the spreadsheet that you developed for TOU calculations. Thanks.

David

Latest update is here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v7bogsz5rzdr11/SCE_TOU_JES_updated.xlsm?dl=0

[propman07]

Latest update is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v7bogsz5r...ated.xlsm?dl=0

Just got it. Thanks.

[OftheSeven]

TOU-A vs. Domestic rate comparison:

SCE took forever to switch me over from Domestic to TOU-A, so for August, I received two bills. Even though I had to run the A/C during 'peak hours' it was still the better plan:

8_15 Domestic.jpg

8_15 TOU_A.jpg

[gvl]

This is what I thought would be the worst month, last year bill for the same period was close to $500 on Schedule D. Sounds almost too good to be true, and may be it is given SCE is having system issues, but maybe not considering the 10c/kWh baseline allocation credit on TOU-A. There is an EV that is charged at super-off-peak, and a hungry pool pump that partially runs during super-off-peak.

[lkruper]

So, I am on a journey for anyone interested in joining me...
I am an engineer (aerospace) who is sometimes too analytical for my own good.
I have a fairly new 6kw system that has been operating since Nov 2014 and am already wondering if I should be on TOU.
I have been trying to comprehend SCEs various rate structures and I am convinced that they must be purposely complex to keep people from understanding how they work. Much like the tax codes or legal-speak.
Here is the link to sce rate schedules:

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/special-time-of-use.htm

To view the TOU rates, scroll down and expand the "+View pricing for these TOU rates" section...
I have several questions, but I will start with the basics

1. I am finding (so far) that the TOU-D-A plan is best for me. This plan shows 1 "on-peak" rate and 2 "off peak" rates (super, regular) . The on peak claims it is "On-Peak: 2 p.m – 8 p.m. (non-holiday weekdays only)" . So, my question is during weekends what is the rate? There are 2 off peak rates. I obviously could assume the super off peak rate, but my experience tells me assuming might cost me money!

2. For the TOU-D-T plan, I would assume that if I find myself in tier 2 (past 130% baseline) that the higher price of electricity is only for consumption not for generation? Or, said another way, they never pay me at anything but tier 1 rates, but can charge me for tier 2 if applicable?

I have tried to model all 3 plans in Excel and have a pretty cool spreadsheet going (it's a little complicated too) and would like to invite anyone interested in checking it in some way as a second set of eyes (more validation of answers seem right, less checking formulas) . I have used my actual hourly gen/consumption data for the last 3 months. I don't think the spreadsheet is perfect yet, I am still making tweaks...but it's getting there.

I was looking at the CA TOU B. Am I interpreting this correctly? The nighttime rate is 11 cents and the baseline is 10 cents, so power used in that tier is actually only 1 cent?