TOU for SCE in Southern California analysis

[silversaver]

I didn't pick up on that at first....
But quite a powerful example of TOU leverage....Your NET cum is 395kWh, yet you have a NET cum -$131. Way to use TOU! I'm wondering if in hindsight, maybe your system is too big with this schedule? Or, will you use this credit up in Winter?

My solar isn't too big, it is 7.1kW system. My usage pattern is from later afternoon all the way to next morning with 2 EVs. My Summer/Winter usage were very high and I'm trying to bank credit from Feb to Jun. If under standard tier, I might have to pay POCO about 2000 to 2500 kWh per year.

[insaneoctane]

I j just got my bill and I will post details later, but it's a very nice credit and it looks as if they did process the entire month as TOU-D-A which is great. The one thing I am realizing as I read this bill (this is also true for non - TOU) is that I have no idea how people can stand only having the data that the PUC provide! They don't show my real usage, rather only the net usage that they have seen... It kind of drives me crazy that their version of usage is only what they see, I need to see my actual usage to make any sense out of my bill. Actual generation and actual consumption are very important to me to understand what is going on in my house. Thank goodness for my TED5000. I am very pleased with my decision to install that from day one. Granted, I am a data head, but everyone ought to at least know real usage and Gen...

[bcroe]

Actual Usage

The one thing I am realizing as I read this bill (this is also true for non - TOU) is that I have no idea how people can stand only having the data that the PUC provide! They don't show my real usage, rather only the net usage that they have seen... It kind of drives me crazy that their version of usage is only what they see, I need to see my actual usage to make any sense out of my bill. Actual generation and actual consumption are very important to me to understand what is going on in my house.

Here the bill shows energy exported and imported, and the difference which is my reserve
build up or depletion. Since my inverters list the energy generated over the interval, actual
energy use is just one more subtraction. Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

I j just got my bill and I will post details later, but it's a very nice credit and it looks as if they did process the entire month as TOU-D-A which is great. The one thing I am realizing as I read this bill (this is also true for non - TOU) is that I have no idea how people can stand only having the data that the PUC provide! They don't show my real usage, rather only the net usage that they have seen... It kind of drives me crazy that their version of usage is only what they see, I need to see my actual usage to make any sense out of my bill. Actual generation and actual consumption are very important to me to understand what is going on in my house. Thank goodness for my TED5000. I am very pleased with my decision to install that from day one. Granted, I am a data head, but everyone ought to at least know real usage and Gen...

They only need to provide justification for what they sell you.

As for people standing for it : it's easy to tolerate something you don't know or care about. Not being a complete butt hole about it, but did you care about this issue until you discovered it ? It's always been there.

More of the welcome to POCO rate and tariff hell.

Part of the problem is what we think we are generating. Get ready for the idea that most solar vendor or 3d party monitoring is probably not as accurate as revenue grade meters provide. My guess is my stuff runs about 2.5% or so optimistic compared to reality, and that bounces around some.

Imagine what would happen if the POCO, in addition to what they bill you for, showed what they believe you generated according to the correct tariff, etc. Your monitor would probably show you generated more (or less) than they think you generated. But, as a practical matter, their equipment is probably much more accurate than yours/mine, and anyway, their meter is the one calling the shots and therefore, de facto, accurate by default/definition until proven otherwise.

Most vendor installed monitoring is OK for the intended purpose of general monitoring and feel good stuff for geeks like me and some others, but I'd not put a whole lot of faith in the accuracy or precision in it vs. a revenue grade device.

This might be the next big revelation coming down the road when the dirty little secret of monitoring accuracy (or actually the lack of it) sees the light of day.

Like Mike, or Inetdog (??) wrote, the person with 2 watches never knows the correct time. In this case, the utility meter, right or wrong is the standard.

[russ]

In this case, the utility meter, right or wrong is the standard.

And by definition - the revenue meter is correct.

All sorts of measurements are fun to watch but often meaningless. Recently I was on the Inca Trail going through Machu Pichu - from time to time I would check the elevation on an app on my tablet - did it make any difference? Nope the work required was the same!

[insaneoctane]

... but did you care about this issue until you discovered it ? It's always been there.

As typical with my quick replies, I am not sure I successfully made my point. I am not irritated by any accuracy issues, but rather the loss of information. Once I added energy generation to the picture I lost the ability for the PUC to Measure my actual consumption. Thats all. The PUC used to be able to send me a bill and I could use that to evaluate both my consumption and the cost. Now they only tell me what they provide me, which is no longer my consumption. The best example of this is this month's bill is about - $130 but the bill can't tell me the whole story anymore... if that's due to heavy production or decreased consumption? Because my true consumption is missing from the bill. Because I have my TED5000, I am able to figure this out luckily. My usage over the last two months has been at an all time low as compared to the last 8 years. I am glad I have the equipment to know this, but my bill can no longer tell me this.

[J.P.M.]

As typical with my quick replies, I am not sure I successfully made my point. I am not irritated by any accuracy issues, but rather the loss of information. Once I added energy generation to the picture I lost the ability for the PUC to Measure my actual consumption. Thats all. The PUC used to be able to send me a bill and I could use that to evaluate both my consumption and the cost. Now they only tell me what they provide me, which is no longer my consumption. The best example of this is this month's bill is about - $130 but the bill can't tell me the whole story anymore... if that's due to heavy production or decreased consumption? Because my true consumption is missing from the bill. Because I have my TED5000, I am able to figure this out luckily. My usage over the last two months has been at an all time low as compared to the last 8 years. I am glad I have the equipment to know this, but my bill can no longer tell me this.

Understood.

[sensij]

Just keep in mind the TED5000 is not revenue grade, so what looks like an all time low might not be, once you account for the potential error. For about the same price as the TED, I'm going with a revenue grade meter from EKM metering. I too miss having the consumption feedback that was available before adding generation into the mix, and the data coming from the Solaredge inverter is clearly inaccurate.

[bcroe]

Usage

I don't see the difficulty. Just add the net energy the POCO fed you, to what the
inverters generated, and you have your usage. If you can't get inverter readings
to sufficient accuracy, you could insert a revenue grade meter in the inverter output
path. There are several around here. Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

I don't see the difficulty. Just add the net energy the POCO fed you, to what the
inverters generated, and you have your usage. If you can't get inverter readings
to sufficient accuracy, you could insert a revenue grade meter in the inverter output
path. There are several around here. Bruce Roe

Bruce: I think that's the conclusion we're all headed toward. Part of the issue here, among other things, seems to be the ignorance surrounding the inaccuracies/quirks of vendor supplied monitoring.

[TLG4]

Hi I am new to this site. Been in the Solar Business for a year and excited to be a member.

[insaneoctane]

Hi I am new to this site. Been in the Solar Business for a year and excited to be a member.

Welcome

[insaneoctane]

Sorry for the delay, life's been in the way....
Anyway here is my bill for period ending April 18th. TOU was fantastic for me and has helped me make serious progress towards what I owe SCE for my winter usage...
TOU-example-best-bill.JPG

In case you don't want to read the actual bill, I got a $149.96 credit this month. It was a perfect storm of things: $29 bi-yearly CA Climate credit + 1 week of being on vacation while solar rocked it (I think I produced ~1,000kWh in this period), and my lowest usage on record (since I've been keeping track for 8 years now) with just under 600kWh used. Anyway all that plus TOU which is working well for me so far and voila! $149.96 credit. I'll keep you guys posted how next month turns out. I'm not as optimistic; next cycle is half way through, I just had about 1 week of "Seattle" style weather (yet, not rain to clean the panels), no CA climate credit, and no vacations....I'm currently at -$22 so far.

[silversaver]

Sorry for the delay, life's been in the way....
Anyway here is my bill for period ending April 18th. TOU was fantastic for me and has helped me make serious progress towards what I owe SCE for my winter usage...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6528[/ATTACH]

In case you don't want to read the actual bill, I got a $149.96 credit this month. It was a perfect storm of things: $29 bi-yearly CA Climate credit + 1 week of being on vacation while solar rocked it (I think I produced ~1,000kWh in this period), and my lowest usage on record (since I've been keeping track for 8 years now) with just under 600kWh used. Anyway all that plus TOU which is working well for me so far and voila! $149.96 credit. I'll keep you guys posted how next month turns out. I'm not as optimistic; next cycle is half way through, I just had about 1 week of "Seattle" style weather (yet, not rain to clean the panels), no CA climate credit, and no vacations....I'm currently at -$22 so far.

Glad to find the answer I'm looking for. The baseline allocation credit of -$0.1/kWh does cap at each month's baseline. So it should be max charge of $3x per month if generated more than baseline or getting extra credit if consume from SCE

[J.P.M.]

InsaneO: Thanx for the update.