TOU for SCE in Southern California analysis

[J.P.M.]

Although I failed to comment yet, on my post above (#23), something interesting about the graph:
3rd month (March), shows that I consumed more than I generated (682C vs 623G), yet I got a credit (-$23.79). This illustrates the power of the TOU if it can work for you...

FYI, in case it's not obvious, the "used" or "consumed" amount is the raw consumption amount, NOT net (gereration does not effect the raw amount).

I'm pretty sure that's a credit against future usage, not money in your pocket for overgeneration.

[silversaver]

just for record. If you have overgeneration, regardless of getting the check or roll over to next cycle, SCE pays you $0.049 per kWH. Your are not getting the kWh credit but cash value after annual true up period. I think taking the check is better choice since you are getting the same dollar value why roll into next billing cycle.

[insaneoctane]

I would agree, I would look at it as a credit for futre usage. But, it's also true, that after the 12 month true-up period, per AB-71, SCE would have to send me a check if it still shows they owe me money. I'd likely turn on the A/C a little more in the summer or consider a hot tub that I've been avoiding if I truly saw the credit at the end of the true-up period and it was more than a few bucks.

[wrlsguy]

I'm pretty sure that's a credit against future usage, not money in your pocket for overgeneration.

I agree that it is a credit against future usage.

In my real life example, having been through a one year TOU-EV cycle with SCE, I did NOT have positive net generation for the year. However, I had an ending credit at the end of the year, due to the favorable effect of solar generation and the TOU plans, but they did not pay me anything for that ending credit, since I did not have positive net generation for the year.

[J.P.M.]

I agree that it is a credit against future usage.

In my real life example, having been through a one year TOU-EV cycle with SCE, I did NOT have positive net generation for the year. However, I had an ending credit at the end of the year, due to the favorable effect of solar generation and the TOU plans, but they did not pay me anything for that ending credit, since I did not have positive net generation for the year.

Which seems to make sense, and perhaps another advantage of T.O.U. - enabling a combination of reduced usage and heads' up time of usage to allow a user and owner of a smaller system to have some further control to offset an equal or greater portion of their bill.

[Gmoney!]

Yah i doubt ill qualify for that. I'll be producing more than consuming during day but that EV will use up a ton at night which i'll buy back at .11 cents but still will probably go over 130%.. Is it calculated monthly or daily?

Guess i was wrong, got my SCE bill for last month...

Before TOU-A, bill was $410
On TOU-A, bill is now $180

I use 1384kwh

1044 of them are super off peak
268 off peak
72 peak

As for credit, I am getting 330kwh at lil over 10 cents so credit of $34

Not sure how this will work when I get solar but something tells me i'll be a lil more in the negative than i projected. We will see, i am not al that sure how accurate the pvwatt production prediction will be.

[insaneoctane]

well I'm going to definitely have to adjust my numbers in the spreadsheet. I just got off the phone with SCE. one of the considerations I had missed but I just found out was that on the tou - d "credit".... if I have over produced for the month I will actually be charged $0.10 per kilowatt hour. That's going to make a difference in my calculations..

[sensij]

well I'm going to definitely have to adjust my numbers in the spreadsheet. I just got off the phone with SCE. one of the considerations I had missed but I just found out was that on the tou - d "credit".... if I have over produced for the month I will actually be charged $0.10 per kilowatt hour. That's going to make a difference in my calculations..

That's super weird. I guess the way around it is watch if you've overproduced and shut the system off at the end of the month, or just turn on an electric space heater / air conditioner and let it run in the back yard until the over-production is depleted.

[Alisobob]

... I just found out was that on the tou - d "credit".... if I have over produced for the month I will actually be charged $0.10 per kilowatt hour.

Please explain...

?????

[J.P.M.]

A lot of the recent posting to this thread seems to sort of agree with my conclusions and suggestions that starting with the POCO tariff schedules and diving into a study of how any POCO constructs their rates is one way, albeit a real PITA, to get things more correct and avoid costly errors. My observation and opinion that POCOs do less than nothing to clear up the confusion and thus make the task harder doesn't help. I'm not blowing my horn, I make more than my share of errors, but after farting around with CPUC/SDG & E/tariff schedules/etc for 7 or 8 years, I've made more errors, and spent more time correcting them than I would have if I had not made such simplistic assumptions about rates and tariffs in the first place and simply bit the bullet, started at square one and iterated my logic until it matched reality.

Just my $.02. Take what you want of it. Scrap the rest.

[insaneoctane]

well the good news is my spreadsheet was calculated correctly. Having the conversation with SCE today brought to my attention to look at how I had calculated the credit. But I found that on many months, in my spreadsheet, I had a net production which resulted in a net negative credit or actually it cost to me. this is a double negative and thus confusing but makes mathematical sense. so the good news for me is it does not change my current assumptions that the time of Use Plan is better for me

[silversaver]

well I'm going to definitely have to adjust my numbers in the spreadsheet. I just got off the phone with SCE. one of the considerations I had missed but I just found out was that on the tou - d "credit".... if I have over produced for the month I will actually be charged $0.10 per kilowatt hour. That's going to make a difference in my calculations..

Please explain...

?????

That's for TOU-D-A only!!!

TOU-D-T is 2 tiers system without $0.1 baseline allocation credit.

https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/rates/residential-plan/!ut/p/b1/hc_RCoIwFAbgZ-kB8hxduXU5yXQWWSlpuwkLW4K6sMjXb0E3EdV_98N34PwgIQfZFvdKFbdKt0X97NLd2yzgoUhQMI_4KDyMl3zDcU7RgJ0B-CUc_91nIN9JsBqPUEQ0RUoTm83oB9hQx4Ctv4g920HmvMAkQD-MYgPSNUFB1rhMOCeI7gv8eDICqWp9MIMzD2TaTtOGP6fx9kCYAtmVp7IrO-usrzfI-763lNaqLq2jbuDS5FiJoZypweABwxOLmw!!/dl4/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/?from=contractorhandbook

[insaneoctane]

That's for TOU-D-A only!!!

TOU-D-T is 2 tiers system without $0.1 baseline allocation credit.

Exactly right.
I apologize for being a little sloppy lately with my posts...
When we are trying to get a handle on the specifics of different rate schedules I should be more accurate with my comments. I have been concentrating most of my efforts of late on TOU-D-A which is the only schedule with a $0.10/kWh credit for up to baseline.

[J.P.M.]

Exactly right.
I apologize for being a little sloppy lately with my posts...
When we are trying to get a handle on the specifics of different rate schedules I should be more accurate with my comments. I have been concentrating most of my efforts of late on TOU-D-A which is the only schedule with a $0.10/kWh credit for up to baseline.

FWIW, I'd still run'em all side by side all the way through. I've pulled out some surprises doing so. How's the rest of the POCO rate hell sojourn doing ?

[insaneoctane]

FWIW, I'd still run'em all side by side all the way through. I've pulled out some surprises doing so. How's the rest of the POCO rate hell sojourn doing ?

Yes, I will....thanks for the push.
I've talked to SCE a couple of times now to see if they could answer some TOU questions. I don't feel I necessarily got the correct answer, although they did give me an answer. Once, after being transferred to a "solar expert" they put me on hold to go ask yet someone else because "I've never been asked that before". That question was in regards to TOU-D-A, regarding the $0.10/kWh credit. I asked since they cap the CREDIT once I exceed my baseline when I'm consuming more than my baseline.... if there was also a cap if I over produce (ie. If I produced more than my baseline, would they "cap" my $0.10/kWh "charge"? Or do I always get charged $0.10/kWh?) Probably will never happen, but I wanted the spreadsheet to accurately handle the math. Anyway the answer was that once I overproduce beyond my baseline, the "credit" (which is really a "charge" for generation) stops.

The other thing I asked is if on TOU-D-T, once I exceed the 130% baseline and move into "level 2" (tier 2), does that apply for production? (Ie if I had a low production month, found myself being charged at level 2, but then had a good hour during sun peak and saw a net production, would I earn the level 1 or level 2 credit?). The answer was that, yes, I can get level 2 credit for over production if that's where I am against my baseline.

Anyway, I think I've got all my stuff in order. I did a spot check on a couple months and manually tried to calculate them in a completely different spreadsheet and have convinced myself that my TOU-D-A calcs are in fact correct. I have not done the same check for the others. I am still very surprised that the other TOU are NOT as nice to me. I'm still tinkering, but I've more or less made up my mind to switch to TOU-D-A. My spreadsheet shows that it is ALWAYS better.

Here's some more eye candy.....
tou_analysis_2015.03.06.JPGtou_analysis_b_2015.03.06.JPGtou_analysis_additional_usage_2015.03.07.JPG
The last one shows if I didn't want to have a credit a the end of my 12 month true-up period, how much more usage I could have (at peak rates) and still owe SCE nothing. Kind of a "margin" or opportunity to run more A/C, etc. [Fixed last graph, it was originally incorrect]