TOU for SCE in Southern California analysis

[gvl]

Since you ask:

Right strategy ? - Who knows, opinions vary. Just one of many. Unwise : ?? Not a word I'd choose.

This being a free country the short answer is it depends on what you want and how you see your options.

If it was me, I'd do the most cost effective stuff first, if not done already, change the pool pumping schedule to only operate at super off peak times , and see what effect that has on the bill. Changing out a pump may not save that much more elec. vs. simply changing the # of hrs. the pump runs and when. Is it possible to only run it only at super off peak times ? Use your head first instead of your wallet if/when at all possible. That's called the smart money way. See what a schedule change does, and then get a new pump if you figure that will add to the savings over the current pump when both are operated only at super off peak, while at the same time paying for itself sooner than some other use reduction/bill reduction (solar) measure.

The 2 kW reduction in array size will reduce annual output by VERY ~ 3,000 kWh/yr, +/- some, and reduce array cost by ~~ $4,500 after tax credit. So, what's the marginal cost of the last 3,000 kWh of power you buy at say, 1/3,1/3,1/3, peak, off peak, super off, while keeping one corner of one eye on the best SWAG of what costs are likely to do in the future (as in who knows ? - but being too pessimistic can be as bad as too optimistic).

My current pump is very noisy, yes running it at super-off-peak would produce a big impact but I wouldn't want to run it at night for my own comfort and the comfort of my neighbors. Variable speed ones are quiet, so not only are they more efficient but you can also run them super-off-peak without annoying living things around you. I have LED lights everywhere and constantly fighting with my family to keep them off when not needed. Energy star washer/dryer/fridge. I suppose there is room for improvement in the attic by adding better insulation, etc. but the net effect is difficult to predict. I have an EV that I charge at night. My installer is willing to add 2kW to to the project for about $5k for the overall cost of about $3.1/W, so I would be getting it at $2.5 per watt before the tax credit, which is a good deal I suppose.

[SunEagle]

Energy conservation is FIRST here too, its been pursued & improved here for years. But
it is a game you can't win, because zero is never attained.

So then there is SECOND. Here that means find an energy source that eliminates
that frustration of never reaching zero, perhaps at a more comfortable level. With
solar, its a lot easier to build big first, than to try and find a way to expand later.

Another approach used here on many things, is try something small scale first, get
real world experience, then use that background to get a powerful solution.

Obviously these ideas will not appeal to all. Bruce Roe

When I get the chance to retire and move to my property in North Florida I will look into First lowering my electrical footprint and then take advantage of solar.

Right now its "stay the line" with a wife and mother in law that have slightly different ideas what energy conservation should involve.

[Alisobob]

Heres my first TOU-D-T statement, and how it all shook out. I also included 3 snapshots , Total use, Peak, and Off Peak.

Hope it sheds some light on how you can save money, combining solar generation, with TOU billing.

solar75.JPGsolar72.JPGsolar73.JPGsolar74.JPG

[rhedayi]

Alisobob
this is the next thing I need to figure out with my new SP 5.2kw system, tou or not with SCE, your uploaded statement clips have me confused...here is my worse month in 2014 with the hourly usage ?? Is there a quick way to look and decide if TOU makes sense for a particular usage pattern ?

sep14.jpgsep16.jpg

[Alisobob]

solar62.JPGsolar60.JPGsolar59.JPG

The RED bars are On Peak generation. ( Noon until 5pm.)

If you can Generate and not Consume during these hours... TOU-D-T could work for you.

[rhedayi]

Alisobob
thanks for the charts. Let me ask a couple of questions to everyone....
say I stay in the current standard plan, say I use 12k power and generate 9k power.....the 3k excess I use will cost what ?? is it 3000/12 which is roughly 250 kw and I pay that as if it is a monthly thing , that is pretty cheap, 250kw of power would be like a $40 bill I guess......

considering TOUDT which is attached below, if I use a/c in the early afternoon I think my panels will make more energy than the a/c will use. A/c is only used when the baby is sleeping (typically) a/c is then used at night around 8pm......midnight etc....

tou.jpg

[inetdog]

Alisobob
thanks for the charts. Let me ask a couple of questions to everyone....
say I stay in the current standard plan, say I use 12k power and generate 9k power.....the 3k excess I use will cost what ??

It will cost whatever the applicable tiered rate is. Or do you have a flat rate as well as a time-independent rate?

[rhedayi]

It will cost whatever the applicable tiered rate is. Or do you have a flat rate as well as a time-independent rate?

I don't know to be honest, tier 1 to 4 based on usage,I think tier one is like 350. Two is like 150 more. Etc

[gvl]

Alisobob
thanks for the charts. Let me ask a couple of questions to everyone....
say I stay in the current standard plan, say I use 12k power and generate 9k power.....the 3k excess I use will cost what ?? is it 3000/12 which is roughly 250 kw and I pay that as if it is a monthly thing , that is pretty cheap, 250kw of power would be like a $40 bill I guess......

considering TOUDT which is attached below, if I use a/c in the early afternoon I think my panels will make more energy than the a/c will use. A/c is only used when the baby is sleeping (typically) a/c is then used at night around 8pm......midnight etc....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6346[/ATTACH]

If you're considering TOU I would advise to sit down and try to understand how much energy is used and when for the last 12 months. Hourly consumption data is available for download from SCE. Then use PVWatts calculator to estimate hourly solar production for a particular array size and orientation. Then model monthly charge for the TOU plans available (there are 3), with the goal being you're close to $0 for a 12-moth period. See if you can push any usage to off-peak or super-off-peak, like running a pool pump at night if you have one. Using a WAG for sizing solar under TOU or even total monthly consumption is not a very good idea. Sounds like you are currently on the tiered domestic rate plan where your rates are dependent on how much you consume irrespective of when it happens. If you want to stay on this plan the analysis is simpler, basically all you need to do is to estimate your total monthly production for each month using say PVWatts again and make sure you produce enough energy to offset your total usage each month so that the energy you're billed for is all in tier 1. TOU with net metering can potentially save you more with a properly sized array and controlled usage, but it requires more careful up-front analysis.

[silversaver]

Heres my first TOU-D-T statement, and how it all shook out. I also included 3 snapshots , Total use, Peak, and Off Peak.

Hope it sheds some light on how you can save money, combining solar generation, with TOU billing.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6332[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6333[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6334[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6335[/ATTACH]

We had about the same surplus, but TOU-D-A gave me a few more credit towards the account. Bringing me from positive to negative account balance toward Summer/Winter usage.

[Alisobob]

We had about the same surplus, but TOU-D-A gave me a few more credit towards the account. Bringing me from positive to negative account balance toward Summer/Winter usage.

Sweet!!!

[insaneoctane]

We had about the same surplus, but TOU-D-A gave me a few more credit towards the account. Bringing me from positive to negative account balance toward Summer/Winter usage.

Looks great!
I am waiting on my first TOU-D-A bill to post on 18th. Unfortunately they did not change my account over to TOU-D-A untilaabout halfway tthrough the billing cycle, but partial is better than none. With being gone for spring break and impressive production recently, I feel like even with the partial plan I will put a significant dent towards what I currently "owe" SCE due to abysmal performance in December and January... Stay tuned...

[silversaver]

What I really want to point out is: I have cumulative energy charge year-to-date -$131.53, but my cumulative kWh year-to-date 395kWh

I consume 395kWh from POCO, but still with -$131 of credit on account by switch to TOU-D-A for single month.

If you turn on the ACs during those peak hours, it will be the other way around..... it would really hurts....

[MikeInRialto]

I don't have a programable thermastat yet, so last summer I would turn the AC on for an hour before I left for work. The house would stay cool until about 5pm, I'd turn it on for an hour and would be good for another couple of hours. This would help keep out of peek hours.

I...in a side note solar permit plans are being submitted this week or early next week.

[insaneoctane]

What I really want to point out is: I have cumulative energy charge year-to-date -$131.53, but my cumulative kWh year-to-date 395kWh

I consume 395kWh from POCO, but still with -$131 of credit on account by switch to TOU-D-A for single month.

I didn't pick up on that at first....
But quite a powerful example of TOU leverage....Your NET cum is 395kWh, yet you have a NET cum -$131. Way to use TOU! I'm wondering if in hindsight, maybe your system is too big with this schedule? Or, will you use this credit up in Winter?