Getting busted for converted garage during solar final inspection ?

[smooth28la]

We bought a single-family house which the previous owner had the garage converted into a recreational area without proper city construction permit.

The solar vendors I've talked to said that some of the panels will need to go to the roof of the garage, which would recreate the risk of the city inspector finding out about the non-authorized modification to the garage during the final inspection.

A vendor insists that the inspector has no right to look inside the garage since the panels are all connected outside or on the roof and I don't have anything to worry about.

No matter how much I'd save on solar, there's no way I'd like to take the chance of getting busted by the city inspector that we must tear down the garage and converted it back to the way it was originally permitted.

Any thoughts or experience on this?

[cletus]

We bought a single-family house which the previous owner had the garage converted into a recreational area without proper city construction permit.

The solar vendors I've talked to said that some of the panels will need to go to the roof of the garage, which would recreate the risk of the city inspector finding out about the non-authorized modification to the garage during the final inspection.

A vendor insists that the inspector has no right to look inside the garage since the panels are all connected outside or on the roof and I don't have anything to worry about.

No matter how much I'd save on solar, there's no way I'd like to take the chance of getting busted by the city inspector that we must tear down the garage and converted it back to the way it was originally permitted.

Any thoughts or experience on this?

It depends on the inspector. Some of them might just take a quick cursory look but where I live they really look close. One of my neighbors had an inspector go clamp by clamp on the roof and look close at the connection points and even brought the local utility guy to do a full electrical inspection. Just today another poster here got busted by the inspector for non permitted work:

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?19295-Solar-Install-Complete/page3

[Sunking]

Inspectors are not allowed to inspect work outside the scope of the permit. None woul dopen that can of worms as it would make them liable for a lot of work done incorrectly.

[smooth28la]

I assume if I have all the window to the garage closed and refuse to open the garage door if asked, then I'd safe?

Currently we have the cars parked on the drive way. It's probably a good idea not to have the cars there during the inspection to avoid raising suspicion.

[sensij]

I assume if I have all the window to the garage closed and refuse to open the garage door if asked, then I'd safe?

Currently we have the cars parked on the drive way. It's probably a good idea not to have the cars there during the inspection to avoid raising suspicion.

The other member that recently had a problem with this got snagged during the permit approval stage, not the actual inspection. I agree with Sunking... the inspector won't be on site looking for problems that are out of scope. Really, getting the permit approved is where I think you might run into trouble, but it is unlikely they would make you tear anything down unless you've been a PITA to them. It probably wouldn't hurt to go ahead with it, but make sure your contract with the solar installer gives you a no-cost out if there are permitting problems.

[Sunking]

I assume if I have all the window to the garage closed and refuse to open the garage door if asked, then I'd safe?.

Don't even have to do that. All they would look at is the work being performed and that may require them to enter the structure. Since the structure is not occupied, they cannot look at the structural loads. Even if they know the structure cannot support the weight, they have no jurisdiction. Only issue would be if the roof collapsed or the structure burned down. You insurance coverage would not pay a dime for you installing a system on a unapproved structure. Nor would you have any recourse to hold they city liable. It would all be on your dime.

Here is how the game works. You build a house following all the rules. You pull permits and pass inspection. If snow collapses the roof, your insurance carrier holds the city liable for damages unless it is a extreme event outside the norm in which case the insurance carrier pays. If you build a house or structure without playing the game by the rules, then you get nothing left holding the bag.

[smooth28la]

I can't change what was already done by the previous owner and am not willing to lose the benefit of the retrofitted garage.

Is the best bet just to get a smaller system that doesn't require the use of the garage roof and therefore minimize the chance the city inspector would need to check out the internal structure of the garage?

[SoCalsolar]

There is some risk

There is some risk but as was mentioned before its during the permit approval stage and usually just a denial not corrections or tear down. Could use more efficient panels?

[smooth28la]

How can there be a denial during the permit process?

The garage itself is totally legit but the city would not know the interior modifications during the permit process?

[Sunking]

I can't change what was already done by the previous owner and am not willing to lose the benefit of the retrofitted garage.

Is the best bet just to get a smaller system that doesn't require the use of the garage roof and therefore minimize the chance the city inspector would need to check out the internal structure of the garage?

I guess I am not making myself clear.

The Inspectors cannot say a thing about work in the past. If they did would open them up to millions of Law Suits for repairs. They will not give a crap about the garage even if they know it was not permitted and will fall down. Not their problem.

Here is why and this has happened million of times. Joe Blow buys a house from another owner. The house was permitted and inspected during original construction. After a few years the the new owner finds the basement is full of water, or the foundation cracks, whatever the case may be. New home owner calls a contractor for repairs. Contractor finds the house did not meet code. Owner ask city to re-inspect and condemn house. Not going to happen because if they did the city is on hook for the repairs.

No AHJ has the authority to look at previous work on a private residential home. It is against the law to do so. All they can inspect is what the job permit as applied. Everything is Grand Fathered out. They are not allowed to go outside the scope of the permit. Only thing they could do, bur does not apply because the garage is not occupied space is look at the structure of the roof to determine if it can support the weight. If that were the case your Contractor would have had a Structural PE (Professional Engineer) come out an dlook and certify the permit drawings. Since the building is not occupied, there is no structural requirement in the permit. They do not care if it falls as they have liability invested. It is your problem if it does.

That is what your contractor has been trying to tell you. The city does not give a crap and cannot do anything about it.

[Krazy1]

I guess I am not making myself clear.

The Inspectors cannot say a thing about work in the past. If they did would open them up to millions of Law Suits for repairs. They will not give a crap about the garage even if they know it was not permitted and will fall down. Not their problem.

Here is why and this has happened million of times. Joe Blow buys a house from another owner. The house was permitted and inspected during original construction. After a few years the the new owner finds the basement is full of water, or the foundation cracks, whatever the case may be. New home owner calls a contractor for repairs. Contractor finds the house did not meet code. Owner ask city to re-inspect and condemn house. Not going to happen because if they did the city is on hook for the repairs.

No AHJ has the authority to look at previous work on a private residential home. It is against the law to do so. All they can inspect is what the job permit as applied. Everything is Grand Fathered out. They are not allowed to go outside the scope of the permit. Only thing they could do, bur does not apply because the garage is not occupied space is look at the structure of the roof to determine if it can support the weight. If that were the case your Contractor would have had a Structural PE (Professional Engineer) come out an dlook and certify the permit drawings. Since the building is not occupied, there is no structural requirement in the permit. They do not care if it falls as they have liability invested. It is your problem if it does.

That is what your contractor has been trying to tell you. The city does not give a crap and cannot do anything about it.

I am the member that had a similar problem. What Sunking is stating is correct. The conversation I had with the chief building inspector was surprising. The chief told me straight up that the electrical inspector should have never brought up my shop never being permitted. She told me that from the records, they new I bought the house less than a year ago and that I didn't build the shop. She explained that this inspector had been cautioned about this before and he was in trouble for doing it again. I was kind of shocked. All this is because I live in a rural area and the shop is detached. But I'm in Florida. Not sure about the laws in your state. The inspector should only inspect at what is permitted.

[russ]

This is for the local building inspections.

I remember in a course I took to get my general contractors license in NC years back - the OSHA inspectors are required by law to stop and write up what they see wrong - they are not allowed to drive by. That was in the late 80's but I doubt it changed.

[smooth28la]

I spoke to my city's building and safety department over the phone. They said while they don't have the staff to proactively look for unauthorized internal modification to the garage, they CAN cite you if they do observe it somehow... whether by seeing it accidentally or because some bad neighbor giving them tip about it

Here are the links on my city's website:

Code Compliance:

http://www.smgov.net/Departments/PCD/Code-Compliance/

To file a complaint:

http://www.smgov.net/Departments/PCD/Code-Compliance/Filing-A-Complaint/

How they would proceed:

http://www.smgov.net/Departments/PCD/Code-Compliance/How-We-Respond-to-Complaints/

[J.P.M.]

As usual:

1.) In spite of what their actual authority and scope of inspection and statutory limits may be, the inspector is always right.

2.) If the inspector is wrong, see # 1 above.

3.) If the inspector is still wrong, start walking up the chain of command as Smooth28la seems to have done with what sounds like a reasonable outcome - at least so far.

For this discussion, looks like a non permitted structure was erected in violation of statutes, perhaps safe, but with no assurances, and probably with little regard as to consequences for neighbors or subsequent owner(s). I'm not a fear monger or a bureaucratic wonk, but building codes exist for a lot of reasons, and some of those reasons actually make sense. Seems that often a common thrust with building code conformance is to find ways to duck them (the building codes). I get that. I've been there.

My experience has also been that, with a few exceptions, most inspection types - Q.C., mfg., governmental, etc. are not out to get you. From almost a practical, realistic and common sense standpoint, they are probably not looking for extra work due to overzealousness. My guess is most of them want to do a good job, if for no other reason than to justify their job. They can be a useful resource if utilized properly. For example and FWIW, during conversations I've found them usually pretty knowledgeable about practical code conformance in ways that work and make sense, but I would never have thought of. More of "none of us is as smart as all of us", with inspectors often seeing what all or most of us do.

Take what you want/need of the above, scrap the rest.

[SoCalsolar]

The denial would come

The denial would come during the approval stage based on the structural drawings submitted by your contractor. If they don't meet current code the plan checker would not approve the design.