Can you use both long and short side panel mounting points on the same panel?

[HX_Guy]

Segway from my other thread and trying to possibly still use the racking that's been installed, it seems I would be able to keep the original layout and respect the fire code setback if I can use both the long side and short side to clamp down the panel. Per Canadian Solar's installs sheet, it says you can run railing parallel or perpendicular to the short or long side and the panel can be clamped between 7" - 10" from the edge on the short side and 13" - 22" on the long side.

[HX_Guy]

Additionally, can a common rail be used between two rows of panels?

For example, can rail #2 in this diagram be omitted and that top panel mounted to rail #3? Or is rail #2 needed? Seems like overkill to have two rails with 4 mounting points for just one panel.

[russ]

Don't use rails - just lay the panels about in the yard.

[Bikerscum]

They say the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over expecting different results.

Stop trying to do this cheaply & do it correctly.

Or, valid option..... don't do it at all.

[HX_Guy]

Very helpful, thanks. Guess I'll stick to asking the manufacturers.

[control4userguy]

I see this forum is no different than any other forum. Someone tries to DIY or go with low bidder or cut around a dealer "model" and then come on here expecting all the answers. It's sad but at the end of the day, not worth it at all to spend this much time. Never enough time to do it right, always have time to do it over.

[russ]

I see this forum is no different than any other forum. Someone tries to DIY or go with low bidder or cut around a dealer "model" and then come on here expecting all the answers. It's sad but at the end of the day, not worth it at all to spend this much time. Never enough time to do it right, always have time to do it over.

I saw that a thousand times over in industry - always time to correct the screw ups when the plant didn't run!

[J.P.M.]

Very helpful, thanks. Guess I'll stick to asking the manufacturers.

Ya' know, no one here, I believe, has skin in the game as far as what they have offered in the way of advice to you. I also believe that everyone here wanted you to get a good job, or at least not a bad job.

Trying to be objective about it, FWIW, looking at this and the other thread, I think a lot (but by no means all) of the train wreck your project looks like it turned into is due to your lack of knowledge about what you were getting into, and what seems to be, IMO, your tendency to not check/verify on your own what vendors and others were telling you or doing to you. Maybe a bit more knowledge about what you bought, a bit more attention to details and a bit less fixation on first cost would have headed off a few problems.

Like probably most everyone else here, I am really sorry this thing went south for you, but I do believe you need to own some of the mess. To me, at least from your contributions to this new thread, and perhaps along the same writing/thinking/direction as recent other posters, to me it reads like your mind set hasn't changed - sort of more of the same. If so, I'm not real hopeful of the outcome being any different. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm not trying to kick you when your down, but this and the other thread might make a good basis for a stickie dealing with how not to approach a project.

Still, Good Luck.

[Ian S]

Very helpful, thanks. Guess I'll stick to asking the manufacturers.

Unfortunately, that's probably your best bet. Way too much smug Schadenfreude around here.

[russ]

Unfortunately, that's probably your best bet. Way too much smug Schadenfreude around here.

Getting your daily whine out of the way Ian?

[CA_Tom]

Segway from my other thread and trying to possibly still use the racking that's been installed, it seems I would be able to keep the original layout and respect the fire code setback if I can use both the long side and short side to clamp down the panel. Per Canadian Solar's installs sheet, it says you can run railing parallel or perpendicular to the short or long side and the panel can be clamped between 7" - 10" from the edge on the short side and 13" - 22" on the long side.

I don't see how the side where the rail is right at the edge of the module is going to be able to clamp the module in place effectively.
Instead of the rail extending well past the module's edge, now you have it sitting on a ledge a fraction of an inch wide. Seems to me that's asking for it to come off that edge, be supported only at one end of the module, and have the module bend and crack from the wind pushing against a fairly long lever arm.

I haven't seen any data sheets (or any installs) where the rails aren't perpendicular to the module's side where the clamps are. So I think you're not going to get any support from this idea from the manufacturer of the rails OR the modules.

Although the other posters are being rather obnoxious about it, they have some valid points, and I think you need to do it right (or not at all).

Good luck

[HX_Guy]

Clamping the panels on the short or long side, with the railing at the edge, is an approved method confirmed by Canadian Solar.

http://www.canadiansolar.com/down/en/PV_Module_Installation_Manual_Annex_en.pdf

[sensij]

Clamping the panels on the short or long side, with the railing at the edge, is an approved method confirmed by Canadian Solar.

http://www.canadiansolar.com/down/en...l_Annex_en.pdf

Are you using Canadian Solar panels? I would not assume the mechanical properties of panels to be the same from one vendor to the next.

I think you might be misunderstanding the annex. I see images that allow clamping on the short side of the frame with the rial right underneath, with a support bar required for some panels and under some common wind loading conditions. What is the uplift and downlift load your design was based on? I don't see anything that suggests a long side edge clamp is ok when the rails are under the long side of the frame, although an insertion style attachment may be allowed. I don't think that attachment style is compatible with the L-brackets that were installed.

[HX_Guy]

Are you using Canadian Solar panels? I would not assume the mechanical properties of panels to be the same from one vendor to the next.

I think you might be misunderstanding the annex. I see images that allow clamping on the short side of the frame with the rial right underneath, with a support bar required for some panels and under some common wind loading conditions. What is the uplift and downlift load your design was based on? I don't see anything that suggests a long side edge clamp is ok when the rails are under the long side of the frame, although an insertion style attachment may be allowed. I don't think that attachment style is compatible with the L-brackets that were installed.

I am using Canadian Solar panels, the CS6X-310 model. The install instructions say that "mounting rails may run parallel or perpendicualrity to the short or long side, even though the illustration only shows it for the short side. I'm not using the panel that requires a support bar and being in Phoenix, downforce isn't an issue.




I also confirmed with Canadian Solar tech support to whom I sent this diagram to:



Their reply was:

"Yes, of course. The rails can run parallel or perpendicular to the long frame. Please see the chart from the PV Module Installation Manual Annexwith required clamp locations. For the 6X you will require the clamp location in the range of A1 or B1 dimension depended on your loading requirements."

[CA_Tom]

Clamping the panels on the short or long side, with the railing at the edge, is an approved method confirmed by Canadian Solar.

http://www.canadiansolar.com/down/en...l_Annex_en.pdf

Ok - guess I was wrong. Seems that your idea may be doable.
I'd double check with the manufacturer, since rails in parallel at both edges wouldn't allow one side to come off the rails. But the configuration you're proposing it's not blocked from shifting off of that rail, except by the clamping pressure from the clamps keeping it in place. (although that could be enough.... after all most are clamped on the left/right of the module not the top/bottom, and modules don't typically slide down off the roof.)

-But-
Aren't you still going to need to re-do all the rails anyhow? At least the pictures I think you posted showed an install where I think new brackets needed to be put in place (and holes sealed - waterproofing the holes made by the "professional")