Solar install turning out really bad - looking for some help/advice please.

[Living Large]

I can only assume the inspector either didn't do a complete job of reviewing your installation or he is familiar with the work performed by the person who installed the system who has done a great job in the past.

I would question whether this is true. Reason being, I have gotten a very good glimpse of my town's politics, including the code officials and inspectors used. There is a wide spectrum of expertise, from excellent to very poor.

I wired my entire house, as a novice who checked a copy of the NEC out of the library, and asked some questions at the elec supply house. The inspection was done by the town zoning officer, and he walked through and looked to see all the outlets were covered. Then he approved my work, after like 5 minutes. That was 20 years ago, and yes we have come up a few notches. Perhaps there are more comprehensive requirements for PV system inspections, where things like that can't happen.

[HX_Guy]

Installer just showed up, I'm guessing the inspection should be here soon too?

EDIT: Nevermind, he sat in front of the house for a minute, opened the truck door...then closed it and pulled away.

[HX_Guy]

Well that went horrifyingly bad! But of course I'm not surprised. Not even as pissed as I should be really, I mean it was expected.

Basically just about every single thing I told them they needed to do, and they ignored me, was caught by the inspector and failed. Undersized wire...check. Undersized conduit...check. Exposed PV wires on the roof...check. The inspector actually didn't even catch everything, like incorrect labels or wrong color DC- wire...but the next one might (from what I heard, they kind of do it all over again from scratch when they come out again).

The inspector literally said "Well, at least the work in the attic was done right so that doesn't have to be redone." L O freaking L!



Oh, and I'm now the proud over of a rivet gun too! While waiting for the inspection, I asked the installer if we could secure the last sign on with rivets...he said it's not really needed, and he forgot his rivet gun, but it'll be fine. I didn't agree and went to Home Depot to pick one up and we secured it on the DC Disconnect. Unfortunately we missed a couple signs and that was tagged as well.





We also had the main breaker derated from 200A to 175A. The installer didn't have a torque wrench on him to put the new one back on, and I didn't have a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter for my torque wrench so everyone sat and looked at each other for a bit. Finally the inspector said if the APS (electric utility company) wants to tighten it down, then she's ok with it. It only required 22ft/lb, he said he's been doing this for 30 years and he's fine without a torque wrench. But just one fail after another.

[sensij]

Well, bummer that it didn't pass, but at least that is a good lesson for those who might be reading this and want to believe the inspection is a rubber stamp. I'm not sure how it works where you are, but instead of re-running all that wire, you might be better off getting new plans and a new permit. From the discussions here, it doesn't sound like any of your wire is truly undersized per code, the bigger problem is that it doesn't match what was approved.

[HX_Guy]

Well, bummer that it didn't pass, but at least that is a good lesson for those who might be reading this and want to believe the inspection is a rubber stamp. I'm not sure how it works where you are, but instead of re-running all that wire, you might be better off getting new plans and a new permit. From the discussions here, it doesn't sound like any of your wire is truly undersized per code, the bigger problem is that it doesn't match what was approved.

Yeah, the permit designer (not the same company as the installer) kind of screwed us there. He oversized everything because "why not" but now it's biting us in the butt. I already emailed them to see what options there are.

[SunEagle]

Well, bummer that it didn't pass, but at least that is a good lesson for those who might be reading this and want to believe the inspection is a rubber stamp. I'm not sure how it works where you are, but instead of re-running all that wire, you might be better off getting new plans and a new permit. From the discussions here, it doesn't sound like any of your wire is truly undersized per code, the bigger problem is that it doesn't match what was approved.

I don't know if resubmitting the plans will be a good plan since the Installer is pretty much out of the picture. It will be more work and more money but I feel to get the system passed and working just do what the inspector asked and make it match the permit drawings.

[russ]

I don't know if resubmitting the plans will be a good plan since the Installer is pretty much out of the picture. It will be more work and more money but I feel to get the system passed and working just do what the inspector asked and make it match the permit drawings.

Which should have been followed to begin with.

[HX_Guy]

I don't know if resubmitting the plans will be a good plan since the Installer is pretty much out of the picture. It will be more work and more money but I feel to get the system passed and working just do what the inspector asked and make it match the permit drawings.

The installer is still in the picture...fortunately or unfortunately. The inspector did say we could resubmit the plans if we choose, either options is fine with the city as long as the wire and conduit in place is the correct size for the system. The crappy part about redoing with #2 wire to match the plan is that the inverter only accepts #6 as the biggest size, so not sure how that would be addressed.

Oh, and running the PV wire through conduit on the roof...that'll be fun. Lots of panels will need to be removed to access it.

[HX_Guy]

Well, it looks like we kind of have to do new permits. I called up SolarEdge and the inverter will not accept anything bigger than 6AWG wire. An adapter would need to be used, which isn't shown on the permit, so that wouldn't pass either.

The only out would be if there are these terminal blocks that can be swapped out in the disconnect to accept bigger wire? Anyone know?

[bcroe]

The installer is still in the picture...fortunately or unfortunately. The inspector did say we could resubmit the plans if we choose, either options is fine with the city as long as the wire and conduit in place is the correct size for the system. The crappy part about redoing with #2 wire to match the plan is that the inverter only accepts #6 as the biggest size, so not sure how that would be addressed.

Oh, and running the PV wire through conduit on the roof...that'll be fun. Lots of panels will need to be removed to access it.

Hey, the most important thing is you know the physical design part is perfect. The wiring mostly
just proves you were right and the installer was wrong. Wiring isn't so hard to fix; you ought to
see how much rewiring I did. But you need more tools; use one once and its paid for.

[inetdog]

Hey, the most important thing is you know the physical design part is perfect. The wiring mostly
just proves you were right and the installer was wrong. Wiring isn't so hard to fix; you ought to
see how much rewiring I did. But you need more tools; use one once and its paid for.

You can change wire sizes with a crimped butt splice with an insulating sleeve. With luck the set of splices will fit inside the terminal box, so no visible changes needed and the wire outside the box will be the proper size. You can rent of buy a hydraulic crimper for the connectors. What you do inside the terminal box would not necessarily be required to be on the plans.
The other common technique, not accepted by code, is to clip off enough small strands of the wire to get the rest to fit into the terminal.

Regarding the red label, was that really supposed to say that the PV wires were "underground" or was it supposed to read "ungrounded"?

[HX_Guy]

You can change wire sizes with a crimped butt splice with an insulating sleeve. With luck the set of splices will fit inside the terminal box, so no visible changes needed and the wire outside the box will be the proper size. You can rent of buy a hydraulic crimper for the connectors. What you do inside the terminal box would not necessarily be required to be on the plans.
The other common technique, not accepted by code, is to clip off enough small strands of the wire to get the rest to fit into the terminal.

I actually found this product here, that I think I could swap out the terminal blocks and it accepts 2AWG wire.

http://catalog.weidmueller.com/procat/Product.jsp;jsessionid=2E33891978DED432048B6E3666214A40?productId=(%5b1020500000%5d)&page=Product

But if we can clip off some small strands to make ti fit, that would work? I'd be ok with that as long as it's safe.

Regarding the red label, was that really supposed to say that the PV wires were "underground" or was it supposed to read "ungrounded"?

It sure WASN'T! It's supposed to say say "Ungrounded", just like this label should say 59.38A, not V...and 240V...not A. The inspection didn't catch any of it, but maybe I'll get lucky next round! Oh, and "Innerconnection" isn't a word.

[sensij]

Well, it looks like we kind of have to do new permits. I called up SolarEdge and the inverter will not accept anything bigger than 6AWG wire. An adapter would need to be used, which isn't shown on the permit, so that wouldn't pass either.

The only out would be if there are these terminal blocks that can be swapped out in the disconnect to accept bigger wire? Anyone know?

They exist. I don't know if they'd fit, and you should also buy the end cover. Check the catalog page for that part number. Same caveat as before... you are messing with a listed assembly, which violates the listing, and is not technically compliant. If you do it neatly, I would guess it is unlikely to be noticed.

Edit: Please do not clip the strands to make it fit in the undersized terminal block. Please.

[inetdog]

But if we can clip off some small strands to make ti fit, that would work? I'd be ok with that as long as it's safe.

As I noted, it is not compliant with the NEC. And if done improperly it can make the connection more likely to overheat or make the remaining strands more likely to break.
As long as there is strain relief on the wire to prevent it from being pulled on at the terminal, I would consider it safe, but of course I could not encourage it.
Be very careful not to scratch, nick or repeatedly bend the remaining strands, since that would make them vulnerable to eventual breakage.

[HX_Guy]

As I noted, it is not compliant with the NEC. And if done improperly it can make the connection more likely to overheat or make the remaining strands more likely to break.
As long as there is strain relief on the wire to prevent it from being pulled on at the terminal, I would consider it safe, but of course I could not encourage it.
Be very careful not to scratch, nick or repeatedly bend the remaining strands, since that would make them vulnerable to eventual breakage.

Yeah, probalby not the way I'd want to go. Easier to just get a couple new terminal blocks and replace the existing ones. I just need to see if I can remove those little DC+ and DC- plastic pieces and attach to the new terminal blocks so it looks "oem".